Him_over_there Offline

119 Male from London       275
Him_over_there
Him_over_there:

Workers create all the wealth that their CEOs parasitically hoard. A Canadian CEO makes more in a day than what most workers make in a year. Tim Hortens’ net worth is estimated to be $1.57 billion.
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SACRED STORM
SACRED STORM: No changing a system until little cogs stop turning, only way to break the machine....
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Numanmusic
Numanmusic: Very True
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: One reason bosses make more is bc they can wreck a company very quickly by making poor stewardship choices, so boards of directors want to hire the best talent available, and compensate accordingly.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: Many companies have equity options where workers can build up ownership in companies and grow while the company grows, offering workers right of first refusal of stocks, at discount for the workers
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Him_over_there
Him_over_there in reply to Super Esquire:

Yet such ‘compensation’ fails to extend to those who work hardest within those industries. Clearly divisions are created where they need not exist. The schemes you refer to are merely a form of Class delusion, whereby a paltry scintilla of company shares are made available to make employees who can afford it ‘feel’ more enfranchised.

But Socialists aren't interested in these empty gestures of appeasement. We will appropriate large, socially useful industry into common ownership and extend democracy into the workplace, with management elected by the toilers; based on merit, and on the wages of a skilled Worker.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: Based on merit, is a virtuous ideology. I am for this. Unfortunately, socialism, apart from the religious Zion model, more often than not devolves into a zone where ppl cease to have incentive to work, and productivity, debt, loss of quality of life ensues.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: I understand how working hard with your hands can drain your mind, spiritually. But Workers must develop their skills and education, learning to be good stewards, and they will rise, no matter what. Granted, many corporate models are not conducive to stewardship aquisition, and some workers never absorb or participate in the bigger picture, as merely cogs in the wheel.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: *remaining mere cogs in the wheel.
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Him_over_there
Him_over_there:
You talk like there's a Socialist nation somewhere with which to compare. But there isn't; nor has Socialism ever been established. We have Global Capitalism, with World-wide poverty and never ending wars.

Incentives to work under the profit system are rather low in the ‘developed World’ also, given the ‘working poor’ gain little more than people collecting welfare.
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Him_over_there
Him_over_there in reply to Super Esquire:

Debt under Capitalism seems to have created a few problems also, being the precipitating factor of the 2008 financial crisis which has thrown the World into social desperation and economic collapse

So why are you making excuses for a pyramidic system of Class division and exploitation, in which there can never be equity or peace?
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: I don't believe in class division but empowering ppl to get an education in life and move upward to the blue skies, to reach their dreams. Many feel they are too beaten down to want to educate themselves, but if you believe you can or can't you are right, quoting the legendary Henry ford.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: Socialism promises no classes, but always ends up taking everyone in one class down, except the government rulers, who profit scandalously. Socialist policies always end up with lower quality of life, overall, bc of the tragedy of the commons, and no one has any incentive to excell anymore. Need must be blended with merit otherwise it becomes a morass. Do corporate owners bum off the workers below them? Not if the company developed and stewarded an idea into existence, and workers have the freedom to come or go. It is about good stewardship. The workers are free to start companies themselves, too, and they should! In government fiat socialism, no one has freedom to come or go.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: Entrepreneurs must be prepared to starve at first, for the opportunity to blossom in the end. Nothing is guaranteed, but good stewardship is the only hope for the future.
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Super Esquire
(Post deleted by Super Esquire 5 years ago)
Super Esquire
Super Esquire: Workers can use their cog role as a stepping stones to move forward into a brighter future. Things like addictions or worldly wastes hold ppl back
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: The tragedy of the commons is where money is severed from the good stewards who developed it and put into zones where no one is responsible. Socialism always leads to waste and inefficiencies--hey, you are spending others money, who cares? Politicians who like socialism buy votes with other's money, a form of corruption. Drain the swamp, they say. The only time communal ownership works is If there is a close personal connection, like in marital ownership of property. A common belief in god among a ppl can give you that close connection, though. This is the zion model, where there shall be no poor and no bums (the worst kind of poor) among them. Apart from the Zion model, socialism leveling is unsustainable. I think u and I long for the Zion model.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: The Zion model is the perfect blend of privatewardship with brethren solidarity, distinguishing between vanity and enterprising wealth.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: Enterprising wealth is the goose that laid the golden egg, and we ought to do all we can to protect that goose for the futurity of our ppl.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: Vanity wealth can take a man to hell. Enterprising wealth gives one a reason for living.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: Side note addendum: *Government programs are a form of communal ownership*
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: As a ppl loose there connection to god, the society will sicken and self strangle in laws, beaurcracy, and public debt.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: *their Not there
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Him_over_there
Him_over_there:

Why are so many flawed clichés brimming from your arsenal [superguyhere]? Their roots are based on a dishonest propaganda constructed before you were born, and perpetuated by reactionary icons from history such as Henry ford.

And again, references to some phantom ‘Socialist nation’, with which to compare and confirm political bias.
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Him_over_there
Him_over_there in reply to Super Esquire:

I’m also unsure what some of your terms mean:

“worldly wastes” ?
“tragedy of the commons” ?
“zion model” ?
“Enterprising wealth” ?

So for your edification here’s a definition of Socialism which doesn't come straight from the pages of ‘John Wayne's pop-up book of political propaganda’:

What is capitalism? What is socialism?
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: No pure Socialist nation? At least they tried for socialism, but it evolved into communism, in russia. Whenever you try to set up a socialist construct by government fiat, the leaders will always take control. They will be "doing things on behalf of the ppl" when it is really for them. There is a reason there is no purely socialist nation, bc it is a phantasm, unachievable, save in the Zion context.
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Him_over_there
Him_over_there in reply to Super Esquire:

It stands to reason that Russian failure to establish Socialism ensured a death knell in any prospect of Communism.

That you cannot understand this elementary political concept indicates both a penchant for Bourgeois disinformation and your stubborn refusal to embrace an honest, objective perspective on the matter.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: Sorry that I am so stubborn, but bear with me, maybe we can understand each others perspective, a little better. Lets first define a few terms....

(1)"zion model", references in the bible "and they had all things in common" after christ's death, not bc the government told them to, but bc the love of Christ impelled them so.

(2) "worldly wastes" are the vanities of the world that bleed you from being a good steward, like addictions, or wasteful spending on things that won't bear forth fruit for your future

(3) "tragedy of commons" is where you sever funds or put things in zones where everyone owns, but no one takes care of, bc no one is responsible

(4) "enterprising wealth" is wealth of stewardship for a cause, or an idea you are growing, something that will renaissance an area of thought, or productivity
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: "Enterprising wealth" is involved with a savvy market appraisal of industry demands, market competitors , problem solving of human need, changes in laws or technology opening up market opportunities.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: A few comments on the interesting video link you shared. From one view, the Marxist definition of "exploitation" is too broad, bc it disregards human agency, and static and dynamic views, preferring the relative view. Instead of viewing how the poorest of the poor in the west are oodles better off, statically viewed, from third world countries, or from historical benchmarks (dynamic views), the Marxists always compare classes within a particular society (relative view), not cross society.

Further, the Marxist view on exploitation disregards human agency. Companys do not force anyone to do anything. Granted, human need pushes ppl to keep working for them, yes, but it isn't solid to argue that meeting human needs or problem solving is exploitation, per se.

Nor is jealousy becoming. "But look at those wealthy ppl". Look at those rich athletes, those talented rich Hollywood celebrities, or those rich academic professors. Maybe we should shut them down, shut them up, and make them be like everyone else. How dare they form a wealth class above everyone, bc of their intrinsic talent, that bears forth fruit of success.

Granted, the wealthy can lock it to make it difficult for others to progress, and inhibiting poor stewardship in others is pernicious, with various noncomoeted agreements. Vanity wealth versus enterprising wealth opens up the market to flow down economics to help all people, no matter where, to advance. I believe we will achieve this one day in the Millenial reign, when Christ shall come, and the world shall rest from its sin, corruption, and violence, and we shall flourish in our artistry and industry, and love for one another. "And a man's soul shall be valued even as the golden wedge of ophir."
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: *If Enterprising wealth overcomes vanity wealth this will happen
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: *noncompete agreements
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: Lastly, workers create more value than they are compensated, this true, otherwise it wouldn't make sense to hire the workees, the companies would just make machines to do the work. Further, if the products companies sell didn't create more value for the consumer than for what the consumer paid for them, the consumers wouldn't buy the products and services offered by companies.
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: *workers, not workees
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Super Esquire
Super Esquire: Also, most ceos are not even owners but hired guns for a company. They pilot the ship, to keep it from ramming against the rocks, from being destroyed. If CEOs don't do their jobs well, they are thrown overboard, often with golden parachutes, granted.
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EYEOFTHEDESERT
EYEOFTHEDESERT: Out with capitalism
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lipika
lipika: Industrialization set in surplus value concept which continues..
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Lucy Bullish Pearl
Lucy Bullish Pearl: What are earth is Super Esquire taking about?
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