Heaven sent the promised land
Looks alright from where I stand
'Cause I'm the man on the outside lookin' in
Waiting on the first step
Show me where the key is kept
Point me down the right line because it's time
To let me in
From the cold
Turn my lead
'Cause there's a chill wind blowin' in my soul
And I think I'm growing old
Flash the readies
Wot's uh, the deal?
Gotta make it to the next meal
Gotta keep up with the turning of
Mile after mile
Stone after stone
You turn to speak, but you're alone
A million miles from home, you're on your own
So let me in
From the cold
Turn my lead
'Cause there's a chill wind blowin' in my soul
And I think I'm growing old
Fire bright by candlelight
With her by my side
If she prefers, we will never stir
Someone said, "The Promised Land!"
So I grabbed it with both hands
Now I'm the man on the inside lookin' out
Hear me shout,
"Come on in!
Wot's the news?
Where ya been?"
'Cause there's no wind left in my soul
And I've grown old
- Roger Waters
clenchedfist00: if saying yes to life as it is right now is the point, what is to be said about those who can't do that? is such acceptance reserved for those with proper breeding?
View all 21 posts
conky_at_the_seaside: the word 'supernatural' unfortunately carries with it some very unpleasant and 'tacky' connotations seeing as how it's been used so much in connection with horror movies, gypsy palm readers and other bargain basement venues. therefore, to use the word supernatural to refer to all things non-material is a mistake. references to something beyond the material plane requires a more respectable word.
conky_at_the_seaside: ............... @ the Knave. totally agree that we have only ourselves to answer to and i'll add to that my personal belief that our conscience is not a true and reliable judge of our behavior because the conscience is severely conditioned by parental and other fallable authorities.
theKnaveofNevermore: i agree, faith does it self no favours becoming ensconced in the fabric of myth and fantasy, god should not be on par with wizardry. magic simply seems rather flimsy set against the back drop of creation. and i would agree somewhat with the notion that conscience can be fallible if the environment one was raised in did not set the benchmark. but even this is not always so, good people have been breed from bad parents, and the reverse is also so, but evil can be concentrated even as it is handed down and the world does serve as the quenching ground that steels our soul, hardening it and us along with it, making bad things worse. i trust my conscience, i have no idea where i picked it up, or why i have always chosen the path that leads me to empathy, even when it hurts, or whether this was inherently me from the start. so i am the only one i must answer to, and i sit in my own judgement and agonize over any indiscretion. i,m rather neurotic that way.
clenchedfist00: ""The one created thing that we cannot look at is the one thing in the light of which we look at everything. Like the sun at noonday, mysticism explains everything else by the blaze of its own victorious invisibility."
- G.K. Chesterton
warning: this is a homily (sermon) and is not intended in any way for the purposes of proselytization - it happens to be the rector at the church i (occasionally) attend
also note: the content of the sermon requires and assumes nothing supernatural whatsoever, and it only makes a few very vague references to the supernatural that can just as easily be interpreted in a non-supernatural way - the content would lose nothing if spoken to an atheist ... and yet it is christian, traditional at that, through and through
View all 5 posts
theKnaveofNevermore: ah cool, it,s all about the pageantry lol. really for the western world individualism has been the zeitgeist over all. this of course does in no way make me satanic, merely a highly independent member of the herd. i am however open to points of view. and it is educational, even as an atheist i can as a human being be moved by sentiment spoken in earnest. the context of the message not eclipsing the message. humanity does not have an owners manual, the word is really all we have. and again i say for my part the mysticism is incidental to the narrative. religion is really such a huge facet of the social order, the psyche of the populous, it,s not a trifling matter. we need all the perspective we can get, tunnel vision in this world is at best ill conceived. on this point, my colleague at work has offered to lend me an english translated quran. with the caveat, understand us. yikes, well never to back down from a literary challenge, if i can read ulysess , the quran should be easy breazy. anyway i,m a firm believer in the philosophy that remaining in the dark is not a defense. hahah
clenchedfist00 in reply to theKnaveofNevermore: yes for us pageantry and beauty in liturgy is very important, they are wordless mediums of religious experience
the quran, what little i have read of it, is awkward in english, supposedly in arabic it is sublime poetry, but not knowing arabic i can neither affirm nor deny that claim
theKnaveofNevermore: yes, i should imagine much would be lost in translation, not the least of which being the poetry of the thing, but i should like a peak regardless, widening ones horizons as it were.
clenchedfist00: today is a happy day ... i went to a walk-in clinic without insurance and paid $109 to talk to a doctor about my anxiety, which has been untreated/unmedicated for about two years now ... i have been using my wife's medication to deal with what i can only describe as breakdowns, which happen at work and, unmedicated, can easily send me walking out of the door in the middle of a shift, an inch away from being suicidal ... this is how i lost my last job two years ago, this is why i was unemployed for two years: no medication to take when this happens, no insurance, the downward spiral of depression preventing me from taking steps to rectify the situation ... anyway, the doctor generously prescribed me sixty 1mg pills of ativan (lorazepam) ... ativan belongs to a class of medications called benzodiazepines, and any benzodiazepine will get me out of a breakdown (my wife's medication is klonopin, another benzo), but none work the magic that ativan does, it has literally saved my life a good number of times my employment countless times, even my marriage ... one pill will bring me from the brink of suicide to a place of hope, calm-headedness, confidence, and the mental clarity and motivation to devise plans of action for how to reduce or prevent breakdowns ... is this addiction? i don't think it is, since my need for the drug does not increase over the time period in which i use it, and weeks, months and even years of abstinence bear no marks of withdrawal or cravings - i simply have breakdowns and cannot do almost anything during them ... this prescription will get me through until i get insurance with my new job and an appointment with my old psychiatrist, who will resume proper treatment ... once again ativan has saved me from unemployment, given me the ability to pursue my goals, and made me feel like a human being ... i walked into the clinic not knowing if the next year, two years, five years would be spent in employment and graduate study or unemployment, depression, and quite possibly much worse things ... i walked out with hope and assurance that things will not fall apart, will continue to improve ... today is a good and happy day
(and no i am not inebriated on some massive dose of ativan, i haven't even picked them up yet)
View all 11 posts
clenchedfist00: ev, thank you for those resources ... i have been diagnosed with depression and anxiety since i was 15, and i know a little bit about them, but good and current information is always helpful, and there is much i don't know about them, so i look forward to a serious read of all your links ... not only have i found that i need to be my own advocate, but also i've found that i need to come to my own conclusions, filling in the gaps where current knowledge is missing, and trying to take a more conceptually substantive view of mental health than current psychiatric orthodoxy does ... i have had many therapists but the best one has been myself, i am always trying to understand my issues, and many of my posts on wire are glimpses of high points in my mental terrain ... i must also check my own reasoning and conclusions against others, since deep introspective self-analysis has a severe bias, much like trying to figure out the exact shape of your nose by looking down
clenchedfist00: @muse: really the only thing that matters to me is whether or not i can take the substance long term without an ever-increasing tolerance and/or negative side effects that outweigh the benefits ... benzos are hard to abuse long term because tolerance develops quickly to the intoxicating effects - but not, i find, to their anxiolytic effects
View all 7 posts
View all 4 posts
clenchedfist00 in reply to theKnaveofNevermore: my music is very obscure, some of these videos have like 30-50 views and no comments ... which blows my mind, how can bruno mars have fifty trillion fans and this stuff have 30, back in my day bruno mars woulda gotten ridiculed like nsync and the backstreet boys did, whereas this misty coast song would have been pretty standard alternative skater music
View all 45 posts
clenchedfist00: my fear about AI and tech in general is fear of the unknown, the sheer magnitude of possibilities, good and bad, frightens me, and mass death and suffering are not the worst case scenario here, there are many worse ones
theKnaveofNevermore: of course, the fictional reality,as we have been shown for the last hundred years, of AI is not a story of peaceful coexistence, the overall narrative has been allegorically speaking, a shot across the bow. halt, go not further, there be dragons here. natural fears of the unknown manifesting in manifestos of anti machine world propaganda, passing it self off has light reading and comic book fair, people so underestimate comic books man. but there is a clear message that has been passed down, right from mary shelley, that it is possible for man kind to outwit it self to its own detriment. its science fiction 101, lol, and it also naturally taps in to one of humanities most basic nerve states, hyper intense guarded awareness, paranoia to you and me. we can see how this might be our end, it,s not new uncharted territory, this issue has been explored, and like reaching out to aliens life abroad, most in the know seem to think, nah, best pass on that. bad mojo. lol
clenchedfist00: sometimes my dreams feel more real than my waking life does ... or, rather, i feel things in dreams that contain whiffs of a more direct experience of reality ... 100% of my waking life feels like i am in a movie ... sometimes in dreams i smell popcorn and move just an inch towards Remembering, Waking Up
View all 8 posts
theKnaveofNevermore: i quite agree with that clench, and i find this also to be true with my own nocturnal adventures. though realistic, they are not in anyway any form of substantive reality. mine seem to of late play on the theme of my being lost. in unfamiliar surrounding. getting to or away from someplace or thing, always on the move. even if my reality is the essence of static. i am both aware of it being a dream but i,m not in any kind of control, i do not lucid dream, and thought i can move as i wish within the landscape of it, i seem to only react to the environment, or be simply a victim of it. i have had no dreams that i,m aware directly relating to the meat packing plant, ( thank goodness) but i have had some that suggest it, in a very strong and deliberate allegory. i had a golden sepia tinged dream of a train disaster, it was like watching an old time movie, the train was approaching me, though i was well off the tracks, well to the left. it was an old steam train as befitted the general antiquity of the scene. the train as it approached me, derailed as it took the curve too quickly and as it tipped to the side, people began to spill out and land upon the tracks, to be chopped to pieces by the steel wheels of the train cars. the blood was vivid red, although the rest remained golden sepia. . it did not occur to me what this dream meant at all, until i pointed out to wanda, that we have a rail system at the packing plant, and i watch animals on this rail system being dismantled all day long. the train was my work. yeah, it,s kinda effed up really, dreams i mean
tularcitas: I kept a dream journal for awhile after I read Jung's "Man And His Symbols". Dreams being our subconscious speaking to our conscious through the use of archetypes/symbols. Everything and everyone in our dreams representing a part of ourselves.
clenchedfist00: my new hog
now i don't have to get up at 5 am after going to sleep at 3-4, take my wife to work, then come home and sleep again before waking up just in time to leave for my work, worrying if my wife will have a ride home or will have to uber
View all 5 posts
clenchedfist00 in reply to tularcitas: definitely a resemblance, a really talented electronica band could play the coldplay song and seamlessly go into the one i posted, then back into coldplay again, that would be epic
clenchedfist00 in reply to theKnaveofNevermore: that sounds like a blast man, but four days in the desert? the desert doesn't sit right with me, i'm a child of the forest and the endless vistas of the desert feel like an alien planet to me
theKnaveofNevermore: i hear that, but the idea of being out in the nothing, flat as a frying pan for as far as the eye can see, with only the rumbling of the steel wheels beneath you to keep you grounded in reality or conversely drive you out of your mind is fascinating to me, like a ship out at sea, no land in sight. and untouchable , beyond the reach of the world, a mental cleansing, total zen, four days of inner peace. or unmitigated hell, who knows, i might not have thought this one out sufficiently. hahaha.
View all 11 posts
theKnaveofNevermore: yeah, not many "cough" atheists in the hells angels, hey what is it called to believe only in hell, nihilism i suppose. but yes, working ones way up the hierarchy, sure thing, i,ll be satans best friend, pretty messed up priorities but hey it,s good to have goals. is religion the psychological manifestation of humanities disdain for the meaninglessness of reality. damn this whole field is nothing but rabbit holes. haha
clenchedfist00 in reply to theKnaveofNevermore: "is religion the psychological manifestation of humanities disdain for the meaninglessness of reality."
yes. it is like the stages of grief, and i believe the spiritual path is a process of grieving reality, and the "oneness" that mystics speak of is the reconciliation of self and world, whereas immature manifestations of religion, which dominate the christian and muslim landscape today, is akin to the first stage, denial
View all 6 posts
theKnaveofNevermore: yes, i totally get that, you may run through a wide variety of imagery, video,s on youtube , especially those done well, making this redundant however, the mind is highly specialized in the interpretation of visual que,s movie makers have know this forever. i have old cgi videos, back when it was all highly cutting edge and somewhat primitive. artists using the medium to explore its possibilities, the imagery was all quite random and senseless but still hypnotic to watch, add to it your own musical selection and it was zone out time. YouTube yeah a little quaint,
View all 5 posts
theKnaveofNevermore: this song requires a bit of commitment, it is one that you must relax into, back in the day i was listening to guys, eno, vangelis, tangerine dream, artists who did not shy away from album side song lengths.
theKnaveofNevermore: ha, sorry, i seldom actually watch the vids, the music is the thing, and youtube is placed out of sight that i may be on my way on wire or elsewhere. but i love the layering on this piece, there is quite a bit going on, all coming together to set the perfect mood. for me it is contemplative, and also quite meditative, even if i,m not entirely sure what meditation entails. perhaps a better way for me to describe it as it pertains to my experience is tripping. just so. this piece could be 20 minutes longer, and i could find myself in a field somewhere , someplace in summertime, with the sun standing close to the horizon, day break, sunset, time does not exist in this place, the sun is a painted picture of itself. it requires nothing of me. hmmm, this gets me to thinking about the book i,ve been reading, we are exploring the essence of nihilism now, sartre embracing a godless world, and while i would would not go out on a limb and say atheism is joined at the hip with nihilism, for him it seemed to have done just that. he wrote a book ( it made me thing you you clench, for better or worse. titled nausea, the story of a rather shy introvert academic named antoine roquentin, he lives alone in a small berg bouville and in this place antoine recalls his life after a time he notices a shift in his perspective, and reality seems not quite right in some fashion, and the awareness of this makes him ill, hence 'nausea'. common things begin to lack sense and he plunges into a world of meaninglessness once he begins to question the substance of everything. he might just as well been writing the book autobiographically, it seems one of his oft quoted axioms ' everything that exists is born for no reason, carries on living through weakness, and dies by accident' somebody give that man a drink, for god sake. he as his character in the book strive but struggle to come to terms with a universe that is essentially, absurd as camus believed or out right bullshit/existential as sartre seemed to convey. godless heathens on both counts. samual becket shared some of these thought lines, and was in fact ,his work at least, admired by sartre. by his estimation existentialism was simply the sanest means of dealing with meaningless nature of reality. though why we would want to dwell on the hopelessness of it all, but we do. now i must add on the road to my list of books. kerouac. what kind of beatnic am i anyway, well after i kill joyce's ulysses. want to talk about stream of consciousness. strange how the tide of individualism that seemed to represent the twentieth centuries social high water mark also was steeped in the nihilism that was born out of the disappointment in the social hierarchies fall from divinity. when western civilization formally estranged it self from both its monarchs and to a lesser yet still palpable degree from mother church, humanity looked inward and found it self wanting. collectively. but we stumbled head long in to science with a thirst to know. when reality could no longer be taken for granted, needing to understand became the almost spiritual thing, and the early twentieth century was all about grappling with unknown with the goal of making it understood. which makes these times of needful doubt all the more saddening.
clenchedfist00: sorry to everyone who has left replies on my wall (especially knave) that i haven't responded to yet ... if it helps, it's because i am waiting until i have the time and energy to devote to them that they deserve
View all 5 posts
theKnaveofNevermore: the rich can never be philosophers sadly, the need to grapple with the truths of the universe comes from a very different place than self satisfaction. most of the best thinkers who gave us the most profound insights into the machinations of the human condition were nearly beggars themselves. or like the russians always say, only through suffering can a man demonstrate his true potential. but hey i,d still be happy to be on the payroll, like in days of old, when writers and artists were provided with patronage in exchange for their creativity. shakespeare was a popper who would steal a potato off your plate, while he dazzled you with pros. worth it i think, for the cost of a potato.
theKnaveofNevermore: hahahah, how perfect. well with the fall of the monarchy,s throughout Europe upon the end of the first great war, a power vacuum was created and the individual stepped in to it. the prevailing reality and zeitgeist sea changed, and the shackles of servitude were collectively thrown off. accept of course in the soviet union where kings were replaced by another pillar of authoritarianism, the state. elsewhere however the new freedom spread like wildfire, women cast off the girdles that had served as both real and symbolic control of their lives and for the first time under the influence of art and alcohol began to express themselves as sexual beings flapping their way out from under the yoke of masculine domination. and not just women, this new epoch of self determination precipitated the rise of self worth and individualism and for the first time the self took precedence ahead of other outside considerations like lords and kings. many took it to the extreme, like rand herself with her proposition that any man may be king unto himself with no obligation beyond his own purview with responsibility only to the self and self interest. with no king to serve and no god to bow down before as part of an obedient collective, the self is free to dwell upon no other considerations but what is best for the individual, it is the coming of age of the bourgeoisie for those who are in a position to take full advantage of it.