 Friends         | Hi and welcome. This section is quite full on. I understand if you prefer to skip it. You are instead welcome to send me a hello, and we can chat... go from there. I am a radical, which actually means 'to return to the roots' e.g. of a concept. I want to put the 'eco' back into the economy. That basically means my becoming a revolutionary. My background is in economics and financial matters. My vision or.. my 'Holy Grail' is this: to have locals learning about nature in their locality i.e. the world over. From school age to old age. This solves the unemployment problem i.e. once and for all. Furthermore, it is only then that any one of us may even begin to speak/write of operating a healthy economy. The reason is plain: nature is what supplies us with... well... everything. The means by which we may meet our needs, and then wants. Modernity has not somehow 'pressed the delete button' on this reality. In terms of the world today, if one wishes to speak/write about the world economy then the foundation is planet Earth. This is what I am about. I am a networker. I am active as a citizen and have written to a vast array of decision makers. If you are looking to join me then that is great. My email address is tom.369@hotmail.com - please include mention of how you came by it, so I do not think it is spam. I am also a champion of freedom of expression, as outlined in Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Note: someone unknown to me deleted my previous account, Tom Livanos. Yes that is my name. This was after seven years of being on Wireclub. Details are on my Feed page from 2 July 2023. Basically I do not know who deleted the account, or why it was deleted. Andy Dufresne (pronounced duFRAIN) is the main character from the movie 'The Shawshank Redemption' (1994). I know the movie well, and I have always related to the central character, Andy.  Andy_Dufresne: Why does anyone think violence or physical force can solve a conflict.... I don't care the side View all 8 posts  sfrost85x: the answer is simple though there is a catch to it answer ... if you no longer exist your no longer a problem catch ... it is not as easy to unalive someone as you think so violence ends up being the result instead of the true goal sfrost85x: and yes i am aware of the miss use of the word your ... it is simply easier to type that or ur then you're so beat me up later or unalive me and solve the problem for good  Andy_Dufresne in reply to Astrogoth: Okay you live in a world that is older than you are too. Your projecting ignorance onto me is your choice. On my end I did know it i.e. before you posted your reply. I continue to know it as I write these here words of reply. So who is being ignorant? Me? If so then you may want to try again as to what I am ignorant of. Or, here is a thought, you may want to ask me. In the meantime, leave me out of it for a moment. "Good luck with that one", as the expression goes, when you begin a reply to someone by telling them that they are ignorant. The opening to any post on here sets the tone for what is to then come. Your choice to make that opening a statement about the addressee's ignorance. My experience on here: oh so many people say that I write too much. Well, as much as I have written, it falls short of everything that I know; this is purely a matter of practicality. The corollary is that it is you who is ignorant. Namely of what it is that I know and what it is that I do not know. This is not to put you down; rather... well... a matter of sheer practicality. So, if I was in your situation, I would not go around ascribing ignorance to others on here. Or, your choice, you may continue to do so. Again "good luck with that one". Onto the matters at hand. You went back to Babylonian, Egyptian times... some go back further, to Sumerian times. I ask: why? Because cuneiform writing emerged? We humans have been roaming this Earth since... well... we first became human. I have empathy for those who say that it (say, bipedalism) defines what it means to be human. That is us i.e. humans. What of the Earth? The continents and lands that exist today, including the land you have named in your reply? It existed way before we humans came along, let alone gave places names. In fact if the history of the Earth is compacted to 24 hours then we humans first appeared at two seconds to midnight. Something perhaps to consider the next time one is awake at 11:59:58pm. This is now well established. I add: nowadays we act as if we own the place. It is a key factor in what causes large scale conflict. See, we have not resolved violence (I agree with you if this is what you are saying). What has happened is that we have taken it to a deeper place. Not you and I Astrogoth (whoever you happen to be). I mean that larger scale: humanity as a whole. Then come the arguments that it is all human nature. Inevitable, unavoidable etc. Now I am not going to sit here, especially today, and argue that violence never takes place. Indeed I acknowledge that violence always has been, remains and I dare say always shall be *an option*. This is far different to saying that it is inevitable or unavoidable or anything else along such lines. Let us examine this a tad. Or perhaps let me examine it a tad i.e. if you are not interested in doing so. Is it violence that has allowed humanity to continue to 2023? It is plain as day that violence and death... well... it is the *cessation* of life. Dead equals dead. That is pretty much the end of it - literally. Perhaps the dead person parented a child, or perhaps s/he did not. Look at the other side of it: life. Coexistence, kindness, a common humanity... when I look at religion, these things are at the core of each one. Indeed, I dare say this is the very thing which draws people to each religion. Religion, however, is not what this message is about. This message is about violence and it's opposite: peace. I dare say that it is peace that has allowed humanity to carry on to the present day. A further 'step back'. Which is the more powerful 'force' - violence or peace? If in some universal manner it was violence then the human story would have ended within 2-3 generations, if not earlier. No. It is peace, coexistence etc. which has enabled 'the world' to continue through to the present day. This way people can live a full life, can bring in successive generations. These things are in the realm of peace, survival, coexistence...; violence, war, killing, murder, genocide... these are the exact opposite of what enables, well, life itself to just carry on. Not that you specifically Astrogoth have done so but oh so many do so nowadays... you want to ascribe naivete to those of us (I am far from being the only one) expressing the values of peace... well hey... to each their own. I would rather preach - and indeed practise - peace than I would violence. You come online and write of which lands "belong" to who, about empires in the last... what... 3% of human history, of the East versus the West... well again... that is your choice. On my end, I just say that each person is a person - myself included. The universe one day flies apart or collapses back in on itself or whatever the heck else... each one of us was a person. You may live in the world Astrogoth; I live life - and I choose life every time. Someone kills me? I have pondered it. A train carriage blows up whilst I am on it. Bye bye Tom Livanos. Dead. Well that is on them. I am not the violent sort - even when others have cut into me with a knife, when I have been belted by yet others. I refrain from violence. And here we both are. Anyway ultimately I am thankful I even have the opportunity to be writing these words. That is another thing that others have made possible for me. I know I am mortal. I have lost loved ones too. Not something that I wish on my proverbial worst enemy. Even when it comes to the world, I'd rather live in whatever harmony, coexistence and peace that I can than turn to violence. That aside Astrogoth, I live life. This is what I do. You may still think of me.. or my supposed ignorance... as a danger. I take a different view; but I still allow you to have whatever view you want to have of me. This is the path of peace (the path to peace is an oxymoron when it comes down to it). Anyway. Reader, I appreciate your time and attention. Andy_Dufresne: Far more than an omelette. Search term: passive solar energy. Householders can access energy from the sun without solar panels or batteries. It is how houses were warmed in winter / kept cool in summer prior to the industrial revolution i.e. for thousands of years (at least). It makes a great deal of sense, but not so many dollars. I myself have practised it since late 2009 - it not only works, it saves money. Search term: pumped hydro. Sunlight can be used to pump water uphill during the day; at night, it is released to power turbines. The next day... the cycle runs again. Voila, solar energy at night. Academics have drawn up maps where pumped hydro stations may be situated to meet the needs of the general population. Add the tides and the fact that so many live along coastlines... a great deal can be done to decarbonise an economy (far far different to ruining it - what we are actually doing via mining). With a volume that is 330,000 times that of the Earth, the sun is a great ball of energy. Enough sunlight reaches the surface of the Earth to meet worldwide energy consumption thousands of times over. Once over is, by definition, sufficient. So gobsmacked was I when I first read this that I did a 'back of the envelope' calculation myself. The numbers are large (petajoules, exajoules) however it is correct. I cannot own my own coal fired, nuclear powered, gas powered, oil powered energy station... ... What I like most about solar energy: its accessibility - guaranteed by the mere rotation of the Earth around its axis. I have eaten muffins baked in a solar oven. "Defeat this" you excavating, shipping, training, trucking, refining/clearning, burning, distributing, transmitting... greedy... so-and-so's. Andy_Dufresne: The 'where I am at'... What I dislike: censorship - especially on chatsites by ops, when people advise me what to do rather than engage on the issues, golf, revving cars or motorcycles, today's Industrial Revolution education 'system', banks evicting farmers with no farmers evicting bank executives, the prison 'system' and ongoing colonisation of indigenous peoples around the world, separate legal personhood for corporations, money in politics, the disconnect between the economy and nature, the ongoing denial that burning fossil fuels has no effect on the atmosphere and other systems of the Earth, today's lack of sustainability generally... ... Digitisation, surveillance capitalism, the never-ending cost cutting of multinational businesses, people's seemingly automatic acceptance [or "inevitability"] of driverless motoring, how everyone seems to have become an expert on car batteries with the emergence of electric motor vehicles, the dehumanising effects of identity politics, the idea that we humans can ever own the planet (in which I include whichever layer of government, corporations, dictators, one percenters), the fact that it is down to 25 individuals who have a combined financial wealth equal to the bottom half of humanity (over four billion people now), famine at a time of plenty, our ability to blow ourselves up a nonsensical multiple times over... * What I like: the vast number of blessings I have been gifted with in life - beginning with life itself (this alone is more significant to me than all my dislikes combined), my ability to write these here words, replies I may receive, accessibility to the internet, people's good naturedness in life, the abundance of the Earth if humanity treated it with respect, the hundreds of millions of people who work in business they own (i.e. employee cooperatives), customer supported agriculture, other forms of cooperatives, passive solar energy, tidal energy, the vast amount of energy present in sunlight reaching the surface of the Earth (~5,000x today's worldwide energy consumption), convents and monasteries, the vast number of books I have available to me, my access to water and food... * There are some who argue that I am opinionated and, by implication, am less worthy of attention. It may even be so. Of course there are others who argue the opposite - that I am insightful and ought to be heard. I leave it for you, good reader, to judge. On my end: well again I am thankful. Writing on a chat site... it is not even on the radar for a vast number of people i.e. right now in today's world. It is not lost on me and I do not just take it all for granted. The only other thing I shall say is that I care. I may not be able to do a darn thing about any of it but, on some (foundational) level, I do care. And I much rather be a person who cares - even if it comes with a mountain of frustration - than someone who is apathetic. I am guided by whatever light exists and I find in life. Some taken it upon themselves to see me as some kind of "whipping boy" on here. Some others then chime in to say that that is incorrect. Well... truth be told... I steer clear of all of that. They can have their life and may they live it to the full; I do not want to be a part of it if all I am going to be is some gimp or something. It saddens me when I block someone. By the same token: no, I am not going to be some gimp. I am here to connect with people. Some then say not to take it all so seriously. Yeah, sure, I am on here (more and more these days) to "throw in my two cents worth" as the expression goes. At the same time some things actually are serious. There is nothing wrong with including such things in human communications. It is not to reach some 'universal agreement on all issues'. That is absurd. Nor is it to "win". As if "the victor" has a trophy delivered the next morning while "the loser" is supposed to collapse in a fit and die  . Rather it is to communicate. See what others have to say, if they wish to share. Accessibility and plurality is what this is all about. People I take seriously i.e. people other than myself. The mere fact that each and every last one of us is a person - this is important. Foundational in fact. I write in this spirit.Thank-you for your time and attention. All the best. Andy_Dufresne: Hi all, As always (and I always mean it), may this message find you well. I have been banned and blocked by another person on here. I respect this person's decision. I am not "out to get them" or looking to retaliate. I do, however, want to share the issues as I perceive them. I was unable to send this message to the person as I have been blocked by them. I share it with the wider Wireclub community (y'all know what I mean). This account, like my last one, may even get deleted. What cannot be deleted are the thoughts I express. Not even my death can do such a thing. Okay here it is: Hi [recipient], May this message find you well :-) <-- not something I write to be cute, as standard, or in any flippant manner. I shall get straight to the point. You boot, over and over and over... and over again. How about you take over my account as well, my life on Wireclub, my life offline/the times I choose to come on here, those of others you boot? I already know that this next part will irk you but I do not write it to irk you... I write it because each and every last one of us is a human being. A person. I am no exception; and true... neither are you. I write to communicate something which is important. If you feel it is necessary to stop political chat in a chatroom (which yes you created and cultivated) then you have some growing up to do. Your supporters have some growing up to do as well. As I asked in the chatroom: what is the alternative? I mean each and every last one of us lives in the world, in society. We simply do. It cannot be "segmented" i.e. being non-political lacks practicality. Religion by the way is a different matter in this regard, as evidenced by the atheists in the world. Keep in mind (if you like) that I did not begin chatting about politics; someone else did. You say it upsets people and causes conflict... I have seen many times when it hasn't; a number of those occasions have seen people say it is interesting - so why not give it a chance? Anyway, I am old school. Accessibility and plurality are things to be celebrated - that is what this is all about. Indeed when all this started it out accessibility was celebrated. Disagreements? Sheesh, they abounded --- but accessibility was celebrated. I have been chatting, albeit on and off, for over 30 years now. Even in chatrooms I have created right here on Wireclub, I have not booted anyone. Not even once have I excluded anyone i.e. from anywhere. I mean in the old days it was not even possible - and didn't even occur to people to do such a thing. In other words, I have gone to the steps you have gone to i.e. in creating chatrooms. I know it is not always easy or always pleasant. It is something which needs to be managed. Removals are the exact opposite of management. Anyway you do you. I am not writing here to put you down or something. If anything, it is the opposite. All I am basically saying is that you do you, I do me, the next person does themself... out to each and every last one of us. I am okay with it. The only question here is: are you? I appreciate your time and attention. You are (of course) welcome to reply. I wish you all the best. All the best, Tom (Livanos) Andy_Dufresne to FadedShade: You messaged me. You had also read the guts of my bio. I enjoyed our chat. I figure.. you at least deserve some recognition. Thanks. Andy_Dufresne: I shall keep it factual. I am no longer able to chat in #Old Guys Are Just Better. Someone (not I) raised the topic of money. I made a few comments, he made a few comments, a third person made a few comments, the only host in the room also entered a couple of comments. Others then wanted a change of topic. A blanket refusal to allow this topic to continue. I expressed my loss as to why. We all live by money. The chat was totally impersonal. Points like centralised banking etc. came up. Participation on the topic was voluntary. Nope. Others can chat about other things; I am not seeking to stop it. Nope. The block option is available. Nope. Just had to change topic. The room host? He did not stop, but rather chimed in with additional comments i.e. about money. Still no. The topic had to just stop. I merely questioned why, and asked to be able chat on a legitimate public topic. I am no longer permitted in said chatroom. I simply wanted to document it. Thank-you for reading. Andy_Dufresne: I believe in openness and honesty. I begin with myself. Inexplicably to me (yes, again), I have just re-entered #Old guys are just Better. It is 18-19 hours after I was banned. Why can I now re-enter? This is yet one more head-scratcher for me  .I repeat my usual gratitude in being able to even be here in the first place. Vast numbers around the world make it possible (and have made it possible vis-a-vis the past). Vast numbers of other people... heck... do not have chat sites... or this thing called the internet... even on their radar. Note: for whatever it may be worth in this oft-crazy life, their lot in life saddens me. I remain cognisant of these facts and do not take any of them for granted. I am thankful. Thank-you again for reading. Andy_Dufresne: Recently, I began blocking people. The tally is now at four people. The reasons vary. I know that over the years I have been outspoken about freedom of expression. I may have blocked these people but I stand by their right to exist on here. This may seem like I am applying a double standard. To that I say this: in my defending myself (and indeed anyone/everyone else) to have freedom of expression - especially on a forum of expression - I have referred to the block function. If a chatter does not like what another chatter is saying then the former chatter has the option of blocking the latter chatter. Bootings, bans, mutings, suspensions, account deletions... they are, in effect, 'executing the block function' for everybody. Andy_Dufresne: Earth. Everyone, this is my focus. Home. Nature meets our needs and wants - individually and collectively. As such nature is the foundation of any economy. It is not money; that is something which comes out the banking system. To go straight to the big one: if anyone wishes to speak/write of the world economy, the foundation is planet Earth. My aim in life is to reconnect the economy and economics to nature. Localisation is the key to doing this. Why? Because locals always have been, are and always shall be best placed to... first... observe a locality. This applies all around the world. It is all basically first principles. Andy_Dufresne: Freedom of expression - it is not even an option I had a friend during my childhood years. He went on to a career in Information Technology. He first introduced me to electronic Bulletin Board Systems (BBSs). Most had only one telephone line, so only one user could log in at a time. This was in the 1980s. One I frequented had four lines, so four of us could be online at a time. One person set up a BBS with 15 lines. It hosted a chatroom - the first chatroom I entered in my life. It was grand. Here we were, gathered together. Chatting. Did everyone get along with everyone else? No, of course not. That stated, the fact that we could all come together was celebrated. It did not matter how tall or short a person was, deep voice or high pitched, a high IQ or a low IQ, living in a mansion or using a school/library computer, ultra-wealthy or dirt poor, a school droupout or a university professor, butt ugly or model material, young or old, female or male or non-binary, heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, omnisexual, asexual.... or anything else. All that matters was access to the technology and the ability to type/produce words on a computer in some way. That was it. I remember this accessibility and this coming together as being celebrated... ... No-one was able to exclude anybody else. It simply couldn't be done. There were arguments, sometimes heated, sometimes inappropriate things were said to other people. No-one excluded anybody else. It did not occur to people to exclude anybody else, myself included. Instead there was this sense of community. Total strangers yet a sense of community. It was by necessity. I think the first moderators/administrators came along in the mid-1990s. I had one, here on Wireclub, tell me to fight fire with fire. Now this may be many things but moderation is not one of them. We even have a block function on here. Nope... apparently even this is not enough. We "need" to have people who make the block decision for everybody else in the chatroom. In the meantime, at base, chat sites are forums of expression and communication. I read things online that would make my intestines flip inside-out if they could. I read things that I totally disagree with and, on one or two occasions, have found myself wishing that they had not been said. Yet that is what places like this are. I myself have not excluded anyone - not since I first entered that chatroom in the latter half of the 1980s. A lot of it is distasteful and totally unpleasant, but there is no cure for freedom of expression. Political leaders have tried it - it only winds up failing. The ability and the need to express oneself are simply too foundational. Also, as much as one person may want to, no-one is capable of speaking for another... unless by some agreement. Even then it cannot be for... well... the entirety of the person's life. Freedom of expression is not "freedom of expression for those who agree with me and/or those who may one day agree with me". No. It is foundational to who we are as human beings. I quote Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR): it says, "Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers." This was unanimously agreed to by the United Nations General Assembly. About as close as one can get to something which is accepted around the globe. You think these philosophers, legal thinkers, diplomats, political leaders etc. did not consider hate speech or what today is considered online trolls? I dislike trolls too. One thing which a troll, or even a chatroom full of trolls, cannot do however is 'disappear' me... exclude me altogether from the chatroom. What is moderation, administration, hosting etc. anyway? Is it someone exercising a responsibility after being elected by others? No, and who would do the electing in the first place? What it is... when all is said and done... is one person accessing lines of software code on a chatsite to do the exclusion. How did those lines of software code get there? Well that was via a computer programmer deciding to put them there 'way back when' the chat site was created. Why? I mean is a chat site a forum of expression and communication or is it some warped exercise in fascism? Have people come here only to silence them? Then I have other chatters who fight me or tell me I write too much in my fight for freedom of expression - not only my own but theirs as well. Well if this is not an example of sadomasochism then I do not know what is. That is just paradoxical, in a toxic kind of way. I appreciate the existence of chatrooms, of other chatters - no matter who you are. What I do not appreciate is exclusions - be they of me or other people. Because that is what we are. People. Even if the universe someday collapses back in on itself or ends in some other manner... we were people. Each and every last one of us. I appreciate your time and attention in reading.
View all 6 posts  Karma_queen: I appreciate the article 19 because in private chat lobby I've berm bullied. I report it and each time I've had to make a new account because it was taken some how yet the bullies were allowed to stay.  BigAlNH: Dealing with bullies is a skill one needs to learn when frequenting Chat Rooms. Maybe it's part of the life lesson "You can only depend on Yourself". Karma_queen in reply to BigAlNH: Yes and no but it's a crime to cyberbully and sites or rooms that allow it and proven can be held accountable Andy_Dufresne: The following is what I had in the 'About section' of my profile. It is 2pm, Sunday 2 July 2023. I am moving it to my Feed page. I also have it saved on my computer. If you dislike it or think it is too long then please.. spare us both.. just move on. Hi and welcome. Disclosure: this intro... it is on the 'heavy side of things'. I was on Wireclub for 7 years to 30 September 2022, when my account was deleted. No idea why, as with my previous silencings/exclusions. I was typing in #Philosophy when a message came up saying 'You Have Exited the Room' or some such thing. There was a button [Rejoin] but when I clicked it it took me to the login screen. I tried logging in again but it no longer recognised my account. I have no idea what I am 'supposed' to think. Am I expected to now vanish off the face of the Earth? Yes I can recreate my account, but the creators and administrators etc. of Wireclub already knew this. So why delete me? I state it plainly - I do not know why. I was merely typing my thoughts into a chatroom. Chatting with other chatters. Whoever I shared a mutual interest with. Is Wireclub a forum of expression or some warped exercise in fascism? Bring people in only to have them silenced? I have been chatting over 35 years now. I have not excluded anyone. Not once. Not even had it "on my radar". Back in the 1980s, on electronic Bulletin Board Systems[BBSs]. These were the days when the mere act of logging in made one a weirdo. Some geek with no friends. That was the public perception. But it did not matter if someone had lots of money and lived in a mansion or was a pauper logging in via a hostel or library. Well educated university professor or a school dropout... *and this was celebrated***. It is in this spirit that I chat. On my end: you may stay. I ask that I do the same. Nothing more. Nothing less either. Thank-you. Andy_Dufresne to divviya_jaan: It would have been nice if you replied to my query how you came by my profile. I don't add randoms either. |
These badges... they cannot be removed (nor is that my style).... what to make of them? For people with more dollars than cents (sense... lol). It raises revenue for.. well.. whomever it is (I do not know) so, on that level, I understand. Anyhoo.