What do you think about genderfluid people? (Page 4)
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Zanjan: Gender fluidity doesn't actually exist - one's gender is physical, strictly a biological function. Whereas, one's state of mind is not.
If you want to change your avatar every day, then own up to that as a psychological preference - a matter of taste is usually called 'FASHIONABLE'.
However, in society, fluctuation across standard borders is a mark of confusion and indecision - that is, an inability to settle on a distinct place; unless you're an undercover agent, you're in crisis.
You don't know who you are because you've ripped out your roots. However, you're fine with attracting attention. Dressing on a whim is one thing but acting out alternately as male/female/non every day is disturbing. Where's the mental balance?
This is not about your friends - it's about you, delighting in confusing others with the unreasonable expectation that you can change societal norms and human reactions to your performance.
If you refuse to accept you have a mental aberration that requires professional help for relief, that's your choice. Don't blame the world, try to adapt. Thus, your best bet is to seek employment where you can wear a uniform so you don't present as a flighty individual.
Scarcastic: Zanjan, you are getting gender identity confided with ones physical sex. No one here is denying that we are born with only one biological sex (unless they were born intersex - not completely physically male or female, but that is rare)
Additionally, gender identity and one's physical sex should not be confused with ones sexuality. Meaning that it's possible for a biological male to have a female gender identity and still be attracted to females. It's up to each individual whether they choose to pursue life as the physical sex they were born, or as the sex of their personal gender identity.
Just like our sexuality, a person's self-perceived gender identity forms usually forms due to a combination of both genetics and outside influence at a young age, just as most other aspects of a person's self identity and personality form. This is something that is completely out of the control of each individual. It would be like telling someone that their favourite colour is wrong, or that their favorite flavour of icecream is wrong. We were not born with a favourite flavour of icecream, though likely genetics do effect which flavour we prefer once we get to experience them, and outside influence, such as which flavour we associate with happy experiences at a young age, also likely certainly play into which flavour ultimately is our favorite, however it's certainly not something we consciously choose, it develops and falls into place naturally on its own.
When a person's physical sex and their gender identity (or in the case of gender-fluid individuals, their fluctuating or divided gender identities) clashes and causes that individual a great deal of emotional stress or turmoil, then it should be up to each individual to choose for their own individual circumstances whether they want to pursue physical gender altercation to whatever extent they feel comfortable, or emotional/mental therapies to help bring them peace, however it should be noted that, likely due to the fact that gender identity and sexuality are indeed partly genetic on a biological level, that such therapies have varying effects and often times are unsuccessful. So the notion that your can "fix" a person's gender identity to fit their biological sex through psychological therapy is largely inaccurate. That's not too say it can't be helpful for some people and that it shouldn't be an option to anyone who chooses themselves that they wish to try it. But that choice should be made by then... Not by ignorant outsiders who don't like what they don't understand. The notion that someone needs "fixing" just because they are different is a toxic notion, as long as we are happy as who we are, we do not need to change for anyone. So go ahead, order the flavour you like, wear the cloths you like, let yourself be who you are... Don't change yourself or be a fake for anyone.
Zanjan: Sarcastic: "you are getting gender identity confided [sic]with ones physical sex."
That's not me - the LGBWTXYZ is coming up with new terms all the time, yet isn't creative enough to come up with a decent name for its club.
"unless they were born intersex"
No such thing - the word for both physical genitalia is 'Hermaphrodite', and there's always more of one than the other. Surgery corrects the situation but does so based on blood and hormone testing.
"gender identity and one's physical sex should not be confused with ones sexuality."
The only confused one is the individual who doesn't know what nature designed them to be and what God wanted them to be. Hint: humans are mammals. Most of these act like beasts, not through lack of education but through preference. There is no gene for preference.
"like telling someone that their favourite colour is wrong, or that their favorite flavour of icecream is wrong"
So? If their favourite colour is black or white, that IS wrong - those aren't colours. If they're favourite ice cream is frozen yellow snow, that IS wrong but we don't care if they're into it. Some people eat their boogers when they think no one's looking - doesn't kill them but doesn't give them dignity either.
"So the notion that your can "fix" a person's gender identity to fit their biological sex through psychological therapy is largely inaccurate. "
That's true, the underlying socio-emotional problems need to be eliminated first, then the rest will follow on its own accord: WE can't do that for them - it's their own journey; if they want help, they should seek it from qualified sources. In most cases, the imbalance is not a symptom of mental illness - it's a spiritual illness.
"as long as we are happy as who we are, we do not need to change for anyone"
That flies in the face of the person who can't accept a given gender - if they were happy with who they were, they'd stay that way. One can certainly enjoy being a serial rapist or hard biker too but I doubt anyone in the LGBTetc. community is that strong and tough.
The healing starts by accepting the reality that no one on earth has peace, happiness is fleeting, all things pass, and the the sick can't heal the sick. Bearing up with this truth is part of growing up.
flappes_flappy_ears: Zanjan well your opinions are very dated and outspoken. People in this day and age can be whatever they want to be. I appreciate not all agree, but it isn't your place to diss the lgbtq+ community. If you don't like it, then clear off this page and stop posting narrow minded comments, if you don't mind
Zanjan: Correction - people these days do whatever they please, often with no regard for others. It's a time when everyone is demanding new rights, not ensuring old ones are respected. They demand to be liked when they haven't earned friendship. While some stay within legal boundaries, that doesn't necessarily make them a lovable person.
I haven't dissed the LGBQ community - they're a support group for their own kind; I have no problem with like seeking like and people crying on each other's shoulders - it's the most natural thing in the world.
However, I mock the name because evey year they add another random letter and have not settled on anything they, themselves, find acceptable. I think the name is stupid. THAT's my non-gendered preference and I own it.
I will say, I think there's less hatred and contempt for others in Western society, racially and religiously, than there was 50 plus years ago; but, this is the result of more than a few generations of consistent education and heroic efforts made by those who aren't biased - that is, they have no personal relationship with the downtrodden.
If you don't want discussion on the subject then why did you open the topic, much less asked for our opinions? Were you looking for platitudes or the real thing? In days farther back, people would have advised you to get a backbone but *I* give you no advice - you didn't ask for that.
With all due respect, since we're showing respect, I didn't ask you for an opinion on my opinion.
Scarcastic: Zanjan, it has become evident to me, based on the contents of your last two posts, that regardless of what I say you are most likely already hard-set in your beliefs and your obstantce will filtre out most of what I say regardless. However I will still provide a few key points, for anyone who may happen to be following this topic and may find them interesting or helpful.
"the LGBWTXYZ is coming up with new terms all the time, yet isn't creative enough to come up with a decent name for its club."
I think you are specifically referring to the Genderqueer or Non-Binary community. Also, as I pointed out in another post earlier in this topic thread, many of the "new terms" you are referring to, as well as the concepts they stand for, have actually existed in common use by Sexologists, Physiatrists, etc. for multiple decades, (some can be traced back to roots of ancient antiquity) but they have only recently come into popular use in modern times as additudes towards sexuality changes and with the help of modern technology that allows the terms to be more readily learned and spread via the internet.
I implore you to do a little research on non-binary and third-gender identities throughout history. (If you don't know where to look feel free to message me and I'll provide links to informative and unbiased resources) You'll find that, as documented by people of an array of religions (including ancient christian missionaries), the concepts have existed in many cultures throughout the globe clear back to the earliest known historical writings and likely well before that. So it's far from anything new. In fact, though it seems old and traditional to us now, the so-called "traditional" binary system of sexual identity is the more recently widely adapted system, tracing back to the 19th century.
"The only confused one is the individual who doesn't know what nature designed them to be and what God wanted them to be."
No offence, but what you believe your god thinks simply has zero effect on me... You're perfectly entitled to choose the religion that makes you happy and to follow it's beliefs system as you feel is right for you, but you have to understand that just because you a religious based opinion, it may be truth to you, but that doesn't make it truth to everybody. It amounts to zilch to me.
Having said that, I'll also add that to my knowledge, in the bible jesus treated everybody with respect and equality and never tried to force them to change to fit his ideals.
"people these days do whatever they please, often with no regard for others."
You mean like, for example, going into rooms to criticize and generalize communities which you are not a part of and know nothing about? I'd like you to show me where I've been inconsiderate of others, either at any time in this topic thread, or by how I feel in regards to my own gender identity...
"They demand to be liked when they haven't earned friendship."
I agree that this would be wrong. Those of us in the LGBT+ community shouldn't be superior or inferior to anybody else, just equal. Personally I've seen more certain well-meaning but overly aggressive straight individuals demanding "reverse-sexism" for people in the LGBT+ community than the people who are in the community themselves. Most of us don't care what you think of our sexuality, however we do deserve more respect and equality than we get from lots of people. Having said that, if you find the idea of, say a man having anal sex with another man to be gross... That's perfectly ok, you shouldn't be labeled a sexist just for having different turn-ons and turn-offs. But while it's ok to disagree with someone, to be grossed out by something they do, or to not be able to understand something about someone, they should absolutely still be treated without any hatred or disrespect. Sadly there's still commonly far too much of both of those around.
I would also like to reiterate another point I made earlier in this topic thread. I do not see the views of genders in a binary or non-binary way as one being right and the other wrong. They are simply two ways of looking at things. While the simplified black-and-white binary gender system may work for most, it lacks accuracy for those of us who are like a zebra, we can't be placed in Black nor White without being significantly misrepresented and thus potentially leading to embarrassing misunderstandings. I like to be accurate and detailed (as can probably be evidenced by my annoyingly long posts...lol) That is why I prefer the non-binary gender system, which includes the other shades of grey that more accurately define all of our gender identities in one comprehensive system. =)
flappes_flappy_ears: Scarcastic - your comments are really passionate and informative!
Zanjan - you say that you don't believe in non binary genders, well, they exist more than god. God's a work of fiction whereas non binary genders do, even more so these days, so there!
Zanjan: Sarcastic: "I implore you to do a little research on non-binary and third-gender identities throughout history."
History was not the point. The point was when you name an organization, you don't change its name every time somebody new walks in the door. What that tells us is the new person is offended he/she isn't included and no one is satisfied. It's not possible to educate anyone by naming an organization using an acronym or unrelated capital letters.
Yes, history always had individuals with gay and asexual preferences; yet that was never the norm, not even close to it. It's not the preferences that bothered anyone - it's how they acted out with them. The village usually called them 'two-spirited', and took care of them the same as they did with all odd ducks, provided the ducks were co-operative.
As long as they weren't predators, bullies, space-invasive or disruptive to the village rhythm, they could live quietly among them as family members. Whereas, if people groups fostered pervasive extreme behaviours, historically, those people collapsed or were conquered, either by the forces of nature or by foreigners.
" to criticize and generalize communities which you are not a part of and know nothing about?"
Oh, was this supposed to be an exclusive group? Of course, one wouldn't expect them to critique each other - after all, one's own kind can do no wrong, right? Do you believe in censorship?
By the way, I've lived a long time, have gone a lot of places, and am very socially experienced - there's not a single thing I don't know about human nature. You and JFC, on the other hand, talk as if there are individuals who don't belong to the human species.
"how I feel in regards to my own gender identity..."
I'm only interested in important matters in society. For instance, when I investigate support groups, I look at their sucess rate; if it's good, I recommend them to others. Some wont agree with a negative review - that doesn't change their sucess rate.
"Those of us in the LGBT+ community shouldn't be superior or inferior to anybody else, just equal."
Pleasant ideology but doesn't work in a community that's intent on pointing out differences. We are all, each one, unique but there's only 26 letters in the Alphabet.
Zanjan: JFC: "God's a work of fiction"
I totally understand why some people don't want to obey the highest authority known to mankind, or even a secondary authority, and on down the line. This falls into what I said earlier. I'm not a fan of the notion that one can be their own authority.
Some people intensely despise rules and words such as "obedience", except in the case where it favours themselves. Only a fool would think they're ready for another intellectual level; but, life will set a fire under their butt, ready or not.
I'm of the mind that people can only improve if they think it's possible, and if they want to. Most of us inherently know we can do better so, the onus is on us to try.
flappes_flappy_ears: I never said I'm superior or inferior, nor another species. I know well that I'm a human, and no more important in this world that anyone else. But lgbt has nothing to do with that, I just know I'm lgbtq and that's all that matters. As I earlier said, I appreciate there are still many people out there who think it's stupid, but all you need to post is "I don't agree". Fyi, I have a sexist racist xenophobic homophobic and transphobic stepfather who is always saying rude things about the lgbt community. I suppose you think he's being reasonable?
LGBTQ means lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans and questioning. 30 years ago, people still looked on gay people as disgusting individuals. 50/60 years ago it was illegal. Nowadays, it is perfectly normal, as society has changed. Are gay people stupid?
LGBTQ is also a way of expressing who we are. Speaking from experience, I was born male but never felt 100% male. As I've got older I feel more and more female (60% female, 40% male) these days. Yet I still don't feel I'm female enough to be completely female, transition etc. When I found out about genderfluidity, I knew that's what I was. And reading forums, etc and the support about it, it's perfectly legal and acceptable. Why the f should I go pretending to be someone I feel I'm not, putting on an act for the sake of narrow minded people?
I'm 95% sure my mother will be fine about it when I tell her about it in December.
flappes_flappy_ears: And on the subject of God, I believe in father christmas more than I believe in God. He's a fictional character in a famous book, like a biblical Harry Potter. If he does exist by some chance, then he's an evil mass murderer who's killed several family members of mine when they were young. My father, 32. My sister, 10. My brother, 4. He's also caused a car accident that nearly killed me and subsequently traumatised my brain for many years, and also gave my grandma the worst case of alzheimers I've ever seen or heard about. I know all these bible bashing holy joes will say "it's God's will". Well I'd cheerfully shoot god for the devastation he caused with my family. F U God.
(And apologies to the mods if they read this. Delete this post, not my profile.)
Zanjan: JFC: " all you need to post is "I don't agree".
That's not a conversation. Nobody cares who disagrees, they only care why. One doesn't need to tell people what to say - that is, a healthy person doesn't. You might as well have a conversation with yourself.
Your opinion of your father's viewpoints has no effect on this conversation. Seems you don't like him - that's your preference. Personally, my mom beat me every day with a wooden spoon - EVERY Day, no exclusions; my dad beat me at least once monthly with a leather belt. Which is worse? A: the belt. I never held that against my parents because at that time in society, most parents did it, including nuns and priests, either to themselves or their charges. It was a messed up society.
By the way, I was always straight - seems that offends you.
"Are gay people stupid?"
Some are, some aren't - not everyone can be equal. Don't ask me questions when you don't want to hear my answer. Note that neither you or Sarcastic have answered any of mine.
"LGBTQ is also a way of expressing who we are."
Don't you mean WHAT you are? Nobody has the same personality and character.
"I'm 95% sure my mother will be fine about it when I tell her about it in December. "
Heck, I can guarantee you she won't be shocked - she wasn't born yesterday!
"and subsequently traumatised my brain for many years"
Doesn't appear to me that you've ever gotten over the trauma and bitter resentment. Some people are survivors, some aren't.
flappes_flappy_ears: I'm sick of wasting my breath (or time) explaining to you. If you don't like the truth then you can get off my conversation.
Zanjan: So far, you haven't answered any of the questions I put to this topic - whatever you're explaining, it's not what I've asked anyone to explain. Thus, it appears you're not interested in questions.
It's always a good time for honesty: Reality is not about anyone liking or not liking truth - what we receive is a response to it. So far, it appears you're only seeking praise and are quite happy punishing those who don't give you that. Next time, post an honest question.
Scarcastic: Zanjan: LOL, you obviously didn't do any actual research. Two-spirits existed among some Native American tribes, and while they are outside of the gender binary system, many Two-spirits themselves consider the term in more of a spiritual way and don't consider themselves part of the non-binary or LGBT+ community... Which by the way, the adaptability of it's name is in fact a strength as apposed to rigidity.
And what the hell do you mean we haven't answered your questions? I think I've pretty well addressed everything you brought up, you just refuse to accept my answers... That's out of my control lady. You're the one who needs psychological treatment of you ask me.
I'm done feeding your attempts to bring friction into the conversation, and tbqh I'm done replying to your posts altogether, you obviously hardly pay any attention to any of what I say. I think I've covered it all pretty thoroughly in my posts, if you still don't get it it's more likely due to your lack of brain cells and obstinate continuation of ignorance.