What do you think about genderfluid people? (Page 22) Adam Southworth: @ Flappy What makes a belief in biological sex "hate speech"? Biological sex is a core aspect of some people's identity, just as your beliefs are a core aspect of yours. I understand you have strong feelings about this, but who made you the final judge of which beliefs are permitted? Who gave you the right to trample the beliefs of others underfoot?  flappes_flappy_ears: @Adam Southworth how do you know if any trans people are going to see this or not? Do you know how many trans people commit suicide every year? 2022 is a world where we should be accepting of diversity, not forcing people to be people they aren't comfortable being. I for one know what this is like. I personally don't care whether people are white, black, gay, straight, bisexual, pansexual, trans, non binary, genderfluid, autistic, scottish, english, Welsh, Irish, American, African, Asian, Australian or anything else. People are people. Hate is not, and should not, be tolerated in 2022. Referring to trans people as their previous gender is transphobia and hate speech, which I am campaigning against. Before Christmas, I read about some terf named Harry Miller who takes great delight in making transphobic remarks on Twitter. And everyone praised him. Where's the justice in this? flappes_flappy_ears: And also, non-binary (which I identify as) has been a recognized gender since 2014. I have identified since 2017, and only told my family last year. It maddens me to see people knocking us down because they can't get their small minded brains around it. And also, biological sex means NOTHING in 2022. Some people are intersex, for a start. Who tells them who and what they are? It's what you are inside that's relevant to who you are. This is gender. And no, I don't get the final vote. But in 2022, racism, sexism, transphobia and homophobia should not be tolerated. Those beliefs are irrelevant in 2022. For example, apparently my mother's bosses are misogynistic. My mother is fine with this and expects us to respect their beliefs. Why should misogyny be respected in 2022? Same thing.  Adam Southworth: @ Flappy I hope a "transgender person" who read this might understand a different perspective. I hope they'd understand that "tolerance" doesn't give them the right to force people to profess things they don't believe. An increase in "diversity" is often very bad for someone. The native Chakmas were outnumbered, displaced, raped and murdered with an increase of Muslims in their region of Bangladesh. Someone might argue that change increased "diversity." Likewise, some women will feel uncomfortable or be harmed by an increase in diversity in their prisons, sports, lavatories, women's shelters, etc. I think we should consider this from all perspectives. I didn't say we should force people to be something other than they are. I simply said that you were wrong to threaten to get someone banned because they disagreed with you. No one has said you should be banned because of your beliefs. I wouldn't want that because I don't expect everyone to agree with me. The word "hate" suggests a strong dislike of something. Where is the "hate" in the belief that sex doesn't change? This belief does no harm until it conflicts with someone else's sense of self. Why would the fact a belief upsets someone else turn that belief into "hate"? There are truths we are forced to accept despite the fact they upset people. A person who accepts them might simply respect truth. You'd have to know more than the belief to know "hate" was the source of it. You seem to be saying that people are either with you or against you. Those who reject the claim that sex can change are "terfs" (trans exclusionary radical feminist) or vehicles of "hate". You don't seem to extend the same tolerance you expect from others. (Edited by Adam Southworth) flappes_flappy_ears: Yes, well I don't agree with freedom of speech about the lgbt community thank you very much, because those who are against us are those who are in the wrong, whether you realize this or not. Save all that for things that need speaking out about, like climate change, or war. I believe "if you can't be kind be quiet". And I'm not against people who disagree. If people simply said "sorry, I don't agree" that's fine. Most users that seems to be attracted to this forum are either terfs or religious idiots who go on about God, who doesn't even exist! But regardless, this forum isn't for either, it's for support for trans and non binary people. Sod off losers! Comment one more time and I will report you! laffer80: “I don’t agree with freedom of speech”. 😂 That about says it all doesn’t it. Lol. Thanks for being honest at least! 🙄 Adam Southworth: Why is it fine to deny someone's belief in God (perhaps the foundation of their identity), but a crime to deny that a person can change sex? That doesn't seem inconsistent to you? The belief that men and women exist might be as important to some people as your beliefs are to you. (Edited by Adam Southworth) laffer80: Perhaps we should demand agreement, submission, compliance and advocacy of the existence of God! And censor anyone who disagrees. You know, the leftist model. I personally reject such foolishness in all its forms. Mandates and censorship doesn’t win minds and hearts. Reason honesty compassion and empathy does. You know, the western civilization model. flappes_flappy_ears: Except I don't have any problem with people believing in God. I personally don't believe in God. I just can't stand people using God as an excuse to be transphobic. Also, on freedom of speech, I didn't say I don't believe in it. I said I don't believe in it from a point of view of lgbt people. I said they should save it for more important things such as climate change, war prevention and things like that. People use freedom of speech as an excuse for spreading hate. That i don't agree with. As stated, I believe in "if you can't be kind, be quiet". You can think and believe what you like, just keep your mouth shut and your opinions to yourself. Hate doesn't win battles in 2022. (Edited by flappes_flappy_ears) flappes_flappy_ears: And I thought I already said stop posting your opinion. You've said it, now push off. And don't tell me to push of, as I created this forum page. laffer80: Flappy: “ I didn't say I don't believe in it. I said I don't believe in it from a point of view of lgbt people.” Translation: I don’t believe in it. Example: from a point of view of lgbt people. Thanks for confirming you don’t believe in free speech and providing an example. Very nice of you to make my case. 😊 You’re projecting again. I’m not the one who tells people to “push off”, you are. Lol. Hater. I have no interest in tweaking your sensitive over-exposed victim nerve. Enjoy your echo chamber. Peace and love. May God save your troubled soul. 🙏❤️😉  MsEcho_Yup: Flappes, you have to understand the mentality of some of these cons. They are constantly told in their media to fear and dislike people who are different from them, for many this goes great with their world view. They are constantly told that they are the victims even when they are the majority making the rules for the most part. Many are misogynistic in their lives but claim to be the high and mighty defenders of womanhood. They use protecting women as a tool because they can't stand trans or non binary people. To them, trans people are expendable. They argue that extending rights to trans people is a violation of the, wink wink, normal people. "Oh, we aren't haters! Not us!" as they spread their toxicity. Yes, they have the right to their personal views. In a world where trans people are under great threat, their crusade against trans people is extremely harmful and not without casualties. In the matter of this thread, if they had any class I believe they should respect your ownership of the thread. They said their peace, and yet they go on and on. Totally ridiculous! And it will never end!. I'm sure they will proceed to take something I wrote here to claim how I am so horrible, how I am so unfair. I don't write for their benefit, they are not interested in a meaningful discussion and my time is worth too much to me to get into it with them individually. I write only because some open minded person might read this and be influenced. The aggressors toward LGBTIA+ folks don't need any more allies. These people who are aggressive toward trans folks know nothing. 'Experts', what a joke! Worse than that they know nothing and they are loud. They lack any basic capacity for empathy or compassion. They don't want to understand anything other than their simplistic view of the world. So Flappes, stay strong, don't let them get to you. You are awesome!.
flappes_flappy_ears: @MsEcho brilliant reply. You are awesome too! As I said, Hate doesn't win battles, love does!  Quinzelle: I think that anyone angry or upset or weirded out by someone's gender identity needs to grow and evolve as a person/spirit some people are not spiritual at all and it shows. All these words so we can get caught up on them is silly. They are at their most base form...labels ..thats it. I identify as fluid and have often been told i have more masculine qualities but thats a laugh and a half itself because they identify being outspoken with being masculine.... thats an old way of thinking... the more we continue to get caught up on simple concepts the more our consciousness will continue to be stagnant as a whole . The friction we feel is people wanting to control how others see or feel things and thats NOT what we exist for at all. Adam Southworth: "Keep your mouth shut". I am against hate. "Push off". I am against hate. They believe transgender people "expendable". I am against hate. They are "misogynists". I am against hate. They are "toxic". I am against hate. They "lack basic empathy and compassion". I am against hate. ... To be "against hate" like that makes Homer's dream of peace among men seem quite pragmatic. Men and women have different chromosomes, sex hormones, gametes, skeletal structure, musculature and even brain structure/function. We can distinguish male from female in the animal kingdom without knowledge of psychological states. Why is it "hate" to regard objective differences as marks of sex/gender? I don't hate transgender people. I have a transgender friend on this site. Some of this group see a distinction between what they are and biological men and women. They don't vilify everyone who doesn't believe they've changed sex/gender. (Edited by Adam Southworth) Adam Southworth: I don't want to be cruel to anyone. My concerns are fourfold: 1) Objective science has value. We should respect science as (if not the only path to truth) a highly successful attempt to understand our place in the universe. 2) There are biological and psychological differences between the sexes. Some of the former can be changed. Of course, the human brain is the most complex structure we know. I feel the force of Heraclitus' words that the depths of the soul would not be revealed if we travelled every conceivable path. Our mind is a vast network of ideas, beliefs, memories, hopes, fears, etc, so our sense of who we are has deep significance for us - much more so for most of us than our objective features. Nevertheless, I feel this post-modern context has made people too willing to bastardise or ignore the objective side of things. 3) We should ensure the safety and well-being of biological women. Of course, I recognize transgender people are also at risk and have their own goals and dreams. 4) People have the right to express an unpopular view. Once those concessions are made, I have no more to say. My goal is not to bring on or exacerbate an identity crisis. I simply think people use "tolerance" to dispense with the other side, as perhaps Msecho illustrates in going straight for "these cons". (Edited by Adam Southworth) MsEcho_Yup: I feel I need to put straight a few premises here. I made a general statement, not naming anyone in particular on the thread and specifically said 'some of these cons.' If you post here, you can be the judge of what applied to you, I didn't make that call,. As for the statements I made, they are not false statements. I described a group of people as misogynists who do claim to support women, yet vote against equal pay, and rights, who don't respect women in multiple ways, including healthcare. Statement of fact, not hate on my part! 'They lack empathy and compassion!' and 'they see trans people as expendable.' I'm not in their heads fortunately, but one has only to look at the over two hundred bills proposed and some already passed to limit or remove rights for trans people. It is an all out assault on trans people. (All LGBTIA+ folks, in many cases all) There are book bans, restrictions on medically approved health care, bathroom access restrictions. (We remember separate water fountains? How did that work out for us?) In Florida, they are trying to prevent any mention of LGBT+ folks. Gay marriage is legal for gosh sakes, and you can't even mention it or have a book in the school library about it. Someone made this statement toward the host of this thread, 'Who gave you the right to trample the beliefs of others underfoot?' Uh, where is the outrage about all these laws being passed, that trampling? That is where the real harm lays. I consider the attitude of those who propose these laws toxic, yes. It is a strawman argument to take away from my comments that I am pushing hate by stating such realities. You can complain about my use of the word 'cons.' Well, I don't think the aggressive anti trans legislation is pushed by conservatives per say. What do you want to call them? I figure cons is a good name because they are cynically using real people's lives as tools to get folks to vote for them. I see that as manipulating the ignorance about trans people and, yes, hate for their own selfish goals. Differences of opinion! Okay sure, all for it! The buck stops for me when someone is angling at removing someone's rights. Yeah, I'll call you on that. And yeah, believe it or not, I'm human. I'm not real fond of those people. Let's be real for a second. I know no trans person who believes that they are changing their chromosomal makeup by transitioning. The claim of 'biology,' that is a hoot! I love the people who's science is limited to one statement of science and that is all the freakin science they need. "End of discussion!" It's like saying my whole discussion about the earth is that it is round. Well, I think there is a whole lot more to that description. Important stuff! "No, it's round and that is all we need to know!" I think a decent, open minded person would want to know more. Someone who just doesn't care about the human aspect of what trans people are or face, well, maybe that one argument is good enough for them. What group of people out there, whatever that may be, is okay having their legitimacy, their humanity judged on one simple statement of science about them. Vilifying those people who state the physiological sex differences? No! Feeling animosity toward those who use these differences as a cudgel to demean and belittle trans people, take away their rights, well, that is a different story. Will I discuss the other pertinent facts here, probably not. I don't think this is a healthy place to really discuss it. GeraldTheMoron: Maybe change the thread title to something like "Support thread for the genderfluid" You can do that you know, just edit your 1st post. Peace, out ParallaxMan: god's teeth there are so o many thick people on wire ok so flappes is genderfluid... so what?. What should matter about a person is personality, humour, intellect and ompassion, and flappes has these is bundles. She is the nicest, smartest, wittiest, most compassionate and truly beautiful person on wire. For those that disagree, google numbmuts/ (Post deleted by Angry Beaver ) Mairy Huff: opps i got some of your gender fluid on me, good thing im wearing a face mask and have had my127th covid booster (Edited by Mairy Huff) | Self-Improvement Chat Room Similar Conversations |