science denialism (Page 9)

zeffur: re: "AchillesSinatra: They don't pretend their beliefs are facts . . . but they believe their beliefs are facts?"

You are apparently an irrational & confused person.

AchillesSinatra: "They don't believe a belief is a fact" - Zeffur

Oh, so they believe that their beliefs are NOT facts (i.e., not true)?

If they believe their beliefs are untrue, why are they bothering me then?

AchillesSinatra: You need to read a book on basic philosophy, dude.

I'm not saying you're a nitwit nor a liar, as you routinely accuse others of.

Just terribly confused.

zeffur: re: "Oh, so they believe that their beliefs are NOT facts (i.e., not true)?"

No, you mental midget. They know they believe & they don't call their belief a fact--because they don't have proof.

zeffur: re: "AchillesSinatra: You need to read a book on basic philosophy, dude.
I'm not saying you're a nitwit nor a liar, as you routinely accuse others of.
Just terribly confused. "

You're just a dishonest weasel. I don't think for a second that you don't understand exactly what I've written. You're just being a spiteful twit because you refuse to admit that you are wrong--eventhough it is perfectly clear that you are being a dishonest twit.

Buh bye, dummy!

AchillesSinatra: "They know they believe & they don't call their belief a fact"

Oh, so next time I see one . . .

"Jesus is the son of God" - God-botherer

"Do you consider that to be a fact?" - me

"No. Zeffur says so"

"Well, fuck off again"

AchillesSinatra: Now, dear readers, assuming your IQ is higher than Zeffur's (not hard), here's how the convo would go ( assuming these Mormons are coherent):

"Jesus is the son of God" - God-botherer

"Do you consider that to be a fact?" - me

"Yes, I do, but I can't prove it" - God-botherer



Compare with Zeffur's: "They don't believe a belief is a fact" - Zeffur (direct quote)

Clearly they DO believe their belief is a fact.

zeffur: re: "AchillesSinatra: "They know they believe & they don't call their belief a fact"

"Jesus is the son of God" - God-botherer
"Do you consider that to be a fact?" - me
"Yes, I do, but I can't prove it" - God-botherer"

Classic dishonest weasel tactic. I write that they don't 'call' their belief a fact & Achilles twists it as 'consider'. And the God believer doesn't consider it to be a fact--they consider it to be true (i.e. a belief without proof). If they knew it is a fact, they wouldn't have a belief--they'd have knowledge of the proven fact.

==============
And again:

""Jesus is the son of God" - God-botherer
"Do you consider that to be a fact?" - me
"Yes, I do, but I can't prove it" - God-botherer

Compare with Zeffur's: "They don't believe a belief is a fact" - Zeffur (direct quote)
Clearly they DO believe their belief is a fact."

^^ another dishonest & confused sequence from the mental midget.

The proper sequence should be:

"Jesus is the son of God" - God believer
"Is that a belief or a fact?" - unbeliever

"I believe it is true; but, I don't call it a fact because I can't prove it is true. If I had proof it is true, I would call it a fact, because all facts are true by definition. It isn't logical to call a fact a belief, because a fact IS true & a belief is accepted as true without proof that it is true. People who assert facts are beliefs are illogical/dumb. People who assert beliefs are facts are illogical/dumb/dishonest. People who assert anything is true (i.e. fact) without having proof that it is true are dishonest/dumb." - God believer

Hence the following is illogical/dumb: "Clearly they DO believe their belief is a fact.--AchillesSinatra"

No, they know their belief is a belief--not a proven fact--which is exactly what a belief is (an unproven belief--not a proven fact).

AchillesSinatra:

The people may decide

AchillesSinatra: Why not just read a book, dude?

I'm almost begging you

zeffur: Why don't you admit you are wrong & a wriggly worm who tries to twist the truth??

Because you are an irrational & dishonest twit?

AchillesSinatra: Not much of argument, professor

AchillesSinatra: Given that you've never read a book on logic or propositional attitudes (e.g. belief) in your life, whence cometh this kinda silly confidence that you're right and every other logician is wrong?

Er, still waiting for that book list.

Looks like I'll be waiting a while.

zeffur: You are not 'every other logician'.
You are an illogical & dishonest person.

AchillesSinatra: Tee hee?

Read Tarski?

Read Frege?

Read Aristotle?

Read Kripke?



You're a joke, dude.

a soi dissant joke.

zeffur: Lol... a joke who proved you wrong.. The last laugh is on you.

AchillesSinatra: Again, "I win" is hardly an apodeictic argument, dude.

zeffur: It doesn't need to be. The proof has already been laid down in multiple forums.

AchillesSinatra: Er no. You have been corrected time and time again.

All we get is the same old "You're a nitwit and a liar".

Based on your voluminous reading?

Amounting to zero.

zeffur: You keep telling yourself that, sunshine. The truth is evident for any honest, rational person to see. You unfortunately aren't such a person.

AchillesSinatra: You mean honest rational people who haven't read a book on logic or rationality in their life?

Prove me wrong

zeffur: re: "AchillesSinatra:.. Prove me wrong "

I already have, dummy.

AchillesSinatra: Oh, where is that book list?

So you're self-ejukated?

zeffur: The proof is in my writing--not in your purported '20 years' of research & twisted & faulty logic.

AchillesSinatra: What a waste of 20 years, eh?

Well, we can't all pick it up in a fillip like you.