Why is the climate changing. (Page 10)

kittybobo34: He could have used a GPS, talk about taking the long way around to get to Isreal

ghostgeek: He knew where he was going when he went to Midian but he didn't know the way to the Promised Land. Very strange if God was guiding him.

kittybobo34: Aah that makes sense, God had the GPS upside down

ghostgeek: There were trade routes between Egypt and Midian, so no reason why Moses wouldn't know the way considering he'd married a Midianite woman.

kittybobo34: I can see their need to dodge the Egyptian forts. I think they went a bit too far out of the way and got lost.

ghostgeek: Moses made a promise he never intended to keep. He travelled to where his wife and family were living.

theHating: Earth's atmosphere appears to be less sensitive to changing CO2 levels than previously assumed.

ghostgeek:

So, start pumping out that CO2, everyone. We’re going to need all the greenhouse gases we can get.

makes perfect sense!

kittybobo34: Ghost,, that may be true, but once the temps have crossed the line that releases all the methane hydrides, well last time this planet did that it was tropical at the poles, and desert everywhere else.

ghostgeek: I find it strange that people think it's so hot. As it happens, I've had to turn the heating on because it's so bleedin' cold. Do you know why it's so cold: Cloud. The sun hasn't shone all day.

ghostgeek: Something to chew on:

Climate alarmists contend that the degree of global warmth over latter part of the 20th century was greater than it has been at any other time over the past one to two millennia. Why? Because this contention helps them sell their claim that the "unprecedented" temperatures of the past few decades were CO2-induced. Hence, they cannot stomach the thought that the Medieval Warm Period of a thousand years ago could have been just as warm as, or even warmer than, it has been recently, especially since there was so much less CO2 in the air a thousand years ago than there is now. Likewise, they are equally loath to admit that the temperatures of the Roman Warm Period of two thousand years ago may also have rivaled, or exceeded, those of the recent past, since atmospheric CO2 concentrations at that still earlier time were also much lower than they are today. As a result, climate alarmists rarely even speak of the Roman Warm Period, as they are happy to let sleeping dogs lie.

[ http://www.co2science.org/subject/r/summaries/rwpeurope.php ]

kittybobo34: Ghost,, you are correct, the Roman warm period was a little warmer, and that was due to the peak of the Milankovitch cycle ,. Since that time we were slowly sliding into the next ice age, at least up till this last century.

ghostgeek: Don't forget the Medieval Warm Period:

The Medieval Warm Period (900 A.D. to 1300 A.D.)

The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) was a time of warm climate from about 900 A.D. to 1300 A.D. when global temperatures were apparently somewhat warmer than at present. Its effects were evident in Europe where grain crops flourished, alpine tree lines rose, many new cities arose, and the population more than doubled. The Vikings took advantage of the climatic amelioration to colonize Greenland, and wine grapes were grown as far north as England where growing grapes is now not feasible and about 500 km north of present vineyards in France and Germany. Grapes are presently grown in Germany up to elevations of about 560 m, but from about 1100 A.D. to 1300 A.D., vineyards extended up to 780 m, implying temperatures warmer by about 1.0–1.4 °C (Oliver, 1973). Wheat and oats were grown around Trondheim, Norway, suggesting climates about 1 °C warmer than present (Fagan, 2000).

Elsewhere in the world, prolonged droughts affected the southwestern United States and Alaska warmed. Sediments in central Japan record warmer temperatures. Sea surface temperatures in the Sargasso Sea were approximately 1 °C warmer than today, and the climate in equatorial east Africa was drier from 1000 A.D. to 1270 A.D. An ice core from the eastern Antarctic Peninsula shows warmer temperatures during this period.

[ https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/medieval-warm-period ]

ghostgeek: I wouldn't mind some of that right now.

kittybobo34: What Milankovitch discovered was that there were cycles within cycles, a constant 500 year sine wave of temperatures overlaid onto the bigger 105000 year cycle. That medieval warm period was our indian summer so to speak. All the extra precipitation we are experiencing now is because of the global warming. It goes up 7% for each degree f the planet takes on.

ghostgeek: Well now, as we all know, the Medieval Warm Period was followed by the Little Ice Age:

Little Ice Age (LIA), climate interval that occurred from the early 14th century through the mid-19th century, when mountain glaciers expanded at several locations, including the European Alps, New Zealand, Alaska, and the southern Andes, and mean annual temperatures across the Northern Hemisphere declined by 0.6 °C (1.1 °F) relative to the average temperature between 1000 and 2000 ce. The term Little Ice Age was introduced to the scientific literature by Dutch-born American geologist F.E. Matthes in 1939. Originally the phrase was used to refer to Earth’s most recent 4,000-year period of mountain-glacier expansion and retreat. Today some scientists use it to distinguish only the period 1500–1850, when mountain glaciers expanded to their greatest extent, but the phrase is more commonly applied to the broader period 1300–1850. The Little Ice Age followed the Medieval Warming Period (roughly 900–1300 ce) and preceded the present period of warming that began in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

[ https://www.britannica.com/science/Little-Ice-Age ]

ghostgeek: So, if there are cycles, we should expect the climate to be warming in just such a manner as it is at the present moment.

ghostgeek: At least, if it wasn't for all these soddin' clouds.

theHating: you make it sound so simple, yet when was the last time ice sheets covered southern europe?

ghostgeek: It is 200 years ago since the last "frost fair" - an impromptu festival on a frozen Thames, complete with dancing, skittles and temporary pubs. Could such hedonism be repeated today?

Londoners stood on the Thames eating gingerbread and sipping gin. The party on the frozen river had begun on 1 February and would carry on for another four days.

The ice was thick enough to support printing presses churning out souvenirs. Oxen were roasted in front of roaring fires, drink was liberally taken and dances were held. An elephant was marched across the river alongside Blackfriars Bridge.

It was February 1814. George III was on the throne, Lord Liverpool was prime minister and the Napoleonic wars would soon be won.

[ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25862141 ]

That sounds pretty parky to me. I haven't heard of an elephant walking on the Thames for a long, long time.

theHating: okay, so the frozen thames is equal to permafrost and glacial formation???

theHating: look, the answer youre soddin for is 2 million years.

ice sheets covered europe 2 million years ago, i think your data points dont support the arguement that we should continue to create a global co2 imbalance

ghostgeek: Consider the following:

"Previously, people believe the last glacial maximum was somewhere in the range of 19-23,000 years ago," Willenbring said. "Our chronology indicates that's more in the range of 25-29,000 years ago in Spain."

[ https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130826123149.htm ]

Not quite 2 million years ago.

ghostgeek: Spain being somewhere in Southern Europe.

theHating: okay, son....

please contrast "ice sheets covering Europe" with "glacial maximum"

your arguement is now conflating "glacial maximum" with ice ages

theHating: i see now why ghost did that; because this LGM study cites temperatures of 21,000 years ago to be very similar to 2013-2017 trends. i love learning about your guy's fringe arguments!