Why is the climate changing. (Page 82) Sir Loin: greenhouse gases don't affect the climate Zeff. Well they do, without them Earth would be a frozen ball of ice but that's as far as it goes  kittybobo34: Yeah co2 has a mild affect on the global temps, but the methane and cfc's have a much stronger affect. kittybobo34: Normal for earth is co2 at 180ppm,, but as it is now we are at 420ppm, At 600ppm there is noticable effects on humans  zeffur: re: "kittybobo34: Normal for earth is co2 at 180ppm,, but as it is now we are at 420ppm, At 600ppm there is noticable effects on humans" From what I see, the 'normal' historical level of atmospheric CO2 is ~285 ppm--not 180 ppm. You should probably exclude periods of ice ages & other conditions that aren't hospitable to human beings, imo. src: https://www.co2levels.org/ Also, the May 2019 'peak' concentration of atmospheric CO2 was 414.7 ppm--not 420 ppm. src: https://earthsky.org/earth/atmospheric-co2-record-high-may-2019 Therefore, the May 2019 peak level of atmospheric CO2 appears to be ~1.46 times higher than the ~1k yr historical average prior to the industrial revolution. (i.e. 414.7 / 285=~1.46). (Edited by zeffur)  ghostgeek: What few realize, however, is that during the last Ice Age too little CO2 in the air almost eradicated mankind. That’s when much-colder water in oceans (that were 400 feet shallower than today) sucked most of the carbon dioxide from the air; half of North America, Europe and Asia were buried under mile-high glaciers that obliterated everything in their paths; and bitterly cold temperatures further retarded plant growth. In fact, Earth’s atmosphere had only about 180 parts per million CO2, compared to today’s 400 ppm: 0.018% then versus 0.040% today. The Ice Age’s combined horrors – intense cold, permanent drought and CO2 starvation – killed most of the plants on Earth. Only a few trees survived, in the mildest climates. Much of the planet’s grass turned to tundra, which is much less nourishing to the herbivores prehistoric humans depended on for food and fur. Recent Cambridge University studies conclude that only about 100,000 humans were left alive worldwide when the current interglacial warming mercifully began. [ https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06/30/life-on-earth-was-nearly-doomed-by-too-little-co2/ ] zeffur: The future 'new normal' might also be a problem.. so there are serious consequences to organisms on both extremes of CO2 levels. Frankly, I don't see current levels of CO2 as too high. kittybobo34: given that the ocean is just about maxed out absorbing the excess co2, and ocean acidity is a result, its too high ghostgeek: Not to worry: The world’s oceans will absorb lower amounts of carbon dioxide as they warm, an expert has told RTCC. [ https://www.climatechangenews.com/2012/01/24/warming-oceans-face-co2-tipping-point/ ] ghostgeek: And consider this: There’s little danger to humans of too much CO2 in the air they breathe. Even the Environmental Protection Agency says 1000 ppm is the safe limit for lifetime human exposure. Space shuttle CO2 alarms are set at 5,000 ppm, and the alarm in nuclear submarines is set at 8,000 ppm! [ https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06/30/life-on-earth-was-nearly-doomed-by-too-little-co2/ ] kittybobo34: reefs are already dying, it seems the ocean life is going backwards, more jelly fish less of the other fishes ghostgeek: Predictions of the death of the Great Barrier Reef are wide of the mark, according to one of the most prominent researchers in the field. Marine biologist David Bourne from James Cook University says global warming and other pressures will not end up destroying the reef – but will instead bring about major changes in biodiversity. [ https://cosmosmagazine.com/biology/barrier-reef-not-dying-but-changing-says-leading-scientist ] ghostgeek: Coral bleaching is not just due to a warming planet, but also a planet that is simultaneously being enriched with reactive nitrogen from sources like improperly treated sewage, and fertilizers. Nitrogen loading from the Florida Keys and greater Everglades ecosystem caused by humans is the primary driver of coral reef degradation in Looe Key. These coral reefs were dying off long before they were impacted by rising water temperatures. Elevated nitrogen levels cause phosphorus starvation in corals, reducing their temperature threshold for bleaching. [ https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/07/190715164652.htm ] ghostgeek: Something to ponder: The year 1936 recorded the hottest thermometer readings of any year in the last 5,000. However, these days NOAA reports only its “adjusted” temperatures, which always seem to go only higher. In fact, the first surge of human-emitted carbon dioxide after World War II should have produced the biggest surge of warming – if CO2 is the control factor. Instead temperatures went down from 1940 to 1975. [ https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06/30/life-on-earth-was-nearly-doomed-by-too-little-co2/ ] kittybobo34: GG,, in 1936 we didn't have monitoring stations world wide, so any local swings in temperature would distort the adjusted or average world Temperature... ghostgeek: So are things any better today? Amazing as this sounds, weather stations used to monitor near surface temperature for the global climate record are disappearing worldwide at and alarming rate. There are two things going on here: 1) Stations are actually being closed down, particularly in Canada and in Russia in the early 1990’s. 2) Some stations while open, have disappeared off the reporting radar for global temperature metrics such as GISS. ... Steve McIntyre recently found that a number of stations that went missing from the NASA GISTEMP dataset are still actually in operation, and producing data, are not being updated into the GISTEMP dataset for some reason. Irregardless of the reason, the problem of dwindling data for the ROW as demonstrated by the video above is real. What is strange though is that some obviously easy to locate data, (link to data) such as Bern, Switzerland, where the headquarters of the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) are located, are missing from NASA GISTEMP. Nearby stations such as Zurich, Switzerland are included in the GISTEMP database. Other stations, such as Crater Lake, OR, are removed from the GISS source code released last year, with a citation saying they are excluded (but exist online in GISTEMP), but no reason is given. yet other stations like this terrible rooftop station cum heat anomaly (and closed by NWS for that reason) in Baltimore, MD are included. [ https://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/06/weather-stations-disappearing-worldwide/ ] Sir Loin: Easy to explain that GG; if their data is entered into "official" records, they will contradict the CO2 scam. The world isn't warming anything like the models say it should. No, the only thing that will happen to the data is they will be fed through a programme which will adjust them to "correct" data.  Fractured fairy tale: There been Saying that for a long time that phosphor and fertilizer washed into the Ocean . Causes coral bleeching  So I suppose its back to the ,"How dare you " lass Sir Loin: Greta's either a very good actor or she's been scared so much for nothing That's child abuse | Science Chat Room 3 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
