Why is the climate changing. (Page 44)

ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Am I right in assuming that contrails are line-shaped clouds? That would point to clouds having quite a serious impact on climate if a lack of contrails could raise the average ground temperature by two degrees. So, if there was a mechanism by which the activity of the sun affected cloud formation, we would have an alternative explanation for climate warming. And, as luck would have it, there is a process by which the sun affects the clouds on earth. The sun's magnetic field can vary the totality of cosmic rays penetrating the earth's atmosphere. A more active sun means a stronger magnetic field, which leads to fewer cosmic rays reaching earth and reduced cloud formation. The end result is then a warmer earth.
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zeffur
zeffur: @ "The Gaia effect in action." Now we're referring to new age things? lol
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kittybobo34
kittybobo34: Gaia is the term for how life on this planet regulates the weather. It's a fact, please read up on it.
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zeffur
zeffur: There are multiple references to the Gaia effect:

1. http://ariane-books.com/book/the-gaia-effects/
2. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Gaia_hypothesis

Frankly, neither one is proven--but the 1st one is way-out-there new age rubbish.
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kittybobo34
kittybobo34: It is simply a term for the effect, the effect is known, and a fact, call it what you will. Nature does help moderate the weather.
By Nature I mean biological life.
(Edited by kittybobo34)
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zeffur
zeffur: Nature helps moderate itself via weather. Hard to argue with that--given that the weather is related to nature...lol
(Edited by zeffur)
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The flying Squirrel
The flying Squirrel: Zeff is just a Boffin , It means they dont know what there talking about , If Man Does this then that will happen , I dont think there got a clue Just pretending they can control things , Or can They HARP
lol
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The flying Squirrel
The flying Squirrel: One thing that was interesting tho , Is when that stuff with Nth Korea with the fire and fury , The Protable HARP machine was towed to sit off the coast of nth Korea LOL
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: The one thing you can say with certainty about earth's climate is that it's mighty complicated. So many different things can affect it that hearing someone pontificating with absolute conviction on what is causing temperature change makes me shake my head and sigh.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: One thing to ponder. If the sun is the force behind recent changes in the climate then there is little for politicians to do. Raising taxes won't change the behaviour of the sun. But if carbon dioxide generated by our industrial societies is the cause, politicians can have a field day sticking their grubby little fingers in other people's lives. So which group of scientists do you think are going to get the research grants? The ones looking at the sun or the ones looking up the tail pipe of your car?
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The flying Squirrel
The flying Squirrel: They reckon the earth moves a few inches
Further away from the sun each year . So I doono how any of its supposed to work . One thing forshore tho they haven't got the Technology for batteries yet to make the Targets theses governments have set
Even they admit that . Don't where all the money disappears too
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kittybobo34
kittybobo34: Squirrel, I was not aware the earth was moving away from the sun a few inches a year? You sure about that? I know our orbit is eccentric, and that changes over several different cycles, we have a planetary wobble that changes the tilt, and our magnetic core doesn't always stay in alignment with our tilt. All this corresponds to the Milankovitch cycles that also fit the ice ages/ warm periods, and the 500 year oscillations in both of those conditions.
(Edited by kittybobo34)
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zeffur
zeffur: Check here, kittybobo34:
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/astronomy-links/41-our-solar-system/the-earth/orbit/83-is-the-distance-from-the-earth-to-the-sun-changing-advanced
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kittybobo34
kittybobo34: Interesting Zeff,, so actually we are moving away from the sun at about 1.5cm per year or roughly 2/3rds of an inch. Not a factor concerning hot or cold issues.
As the sun uses up its hydrogen fuel though it shrinks in on itself and gets hotter. The sun's intensity is always increasing. Eventually it will use up enough fuel that it will shrink in on itself enough to engage other elements in fission, then expand into a red giant. Good time to get a sun tan.
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zeffur
zeffur: Looks like it; although, his assumption is that the fusion rate "is the same as the average rate over those 10 billion years"--which won't likely be--I'd guess that our rate of movement would slow a bit each year as the fusion rate decreases.

No worries though--beginning "around 5 billion years from now, the Sun will expand, becoming a swollen star called a red giant. By 7.5 billion years in the future, its surface will be past where Earth's orbit is now. So the expanding Sun will engulf, and destroy, the Earth.

It's been suggested that Earth might escape. The Sun will lose mass as it grows, so Earth will spiral further out. But according to calculations performed in 2008, this won't be enough to save our planet."
src: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150323-how-long-will-life-on-earth-last

Maybe by then we will move everyone to a safer location in the solar system (or galaxy) or discover a way to change the orbit of earth to protect it from it's atmosphere boiling off into outer space--hate to see ole blue go down like an over-cooked marshmallow in a campfire.

Given the lead time, we'll be long gone before that occurs--it will be the problem of the people 200+ million generations from now. lol

Of course, it is very likely life on earth will be inhabitable long before our sun becomes a reg giant & consumes earth as it's orbit intersects the growth of the sun.
(Edited by zeffur)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: If one reads the constant streams of health scares in the paper, the only conclusion one can reach is that the human race is doomed. Fortunately, that outcome is to be prefered to the dismal life we should be living according to all the "experts". So drink up and be merry, and don't forget to wash your clothes ( washing clothes, it now seems, is bad for the planet ).
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kittybobo34
kittybobo34: Ghost,, you are right, if humanity plays this wrong it could really be bad. You might say we are on the knife edge, could go ether way.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Hannibal crossed the Alps in 218 BC. That must tell us something. Possibly this:

An examination of tree ring density and glacier data for the Alps indicates that the year of crossing fell into a period when temperature conditions were much the same and, perhaps, slightly milder than those of the current century since about 1920 - a period of almost worldwide warming.

[ https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00142963 ]

Has anybody explained WHY it was as warm back then as it is now? We hear so much about why the planet is as warm as it is at the present time ( CO2 ) but little to explain why it was just as warm in 218 BC.
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zeffur
zeffur: The leftists weren't as organized in 218 BC as they are today.
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kittybobo34
kittybobo34: According to the Milankovitch cycles, the peak of the warm period after the ice age was that time. since then we have been sliding back to the next ice age. Our civilization stopped that trend in the early 1900's.
(Edited by kittybobo34)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: The recent record high in Miami, FL was made in the middle of a vast concrete jungle that did not exist 100 years ago, and now averages 10 deg. F warmer at night than rural surroundings.

[ https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/06/29/frances-new-hottest-recorded-temperature-ever-is-in-question-guess-where-it-was-measured/ ]
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zeffur
zeffur: It's been in the low 70s at night in Houston. That's very rare in Houston for the last week of July. This summer the temps have been much more mild than in the past. We've also received more rain than usual too!
(Edited by zeffur)
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The flying Squirrel
The flying Squirrel: Yeah thats exactly right where they take all these readings on temp espically in citys . There sourroned by buildings and concrete that never used to exist . Then there compairing the temps to 100 years ago
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kittybobo34
kittybobo34: I know in Cincinnati they take the temps at the airport. Not sure of other cities, but that would make a big difference if they only did it in cities.
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The flying Squirrel
The flying Squirrel: I actually herd that awile ago Plus all the residual heat Citys must hold , Make sence when you think about it
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