Why is the climate changing. (Page 312)

ZykraCosmos
ZykraCosmos: and.... g'day
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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: Yeah gidday mate.
So you'll be aware that when CO2 levels were much lower the earth was basking in a subtropical climate ?
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ZykraCosmos
ZykraCosmos: 2B continued
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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: Yes, I find the topic fascinating
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bonzono
bonzono: "So you'll be aware that when CO2 levels were much lower the earth was basking in a subtropical climate "

Of course that can happen. no one has said otherwise.
No one has claimed it can't, no one has ever declared it's unlikely or impossible.

Loin, you simply do not understand the issue.
You've agreed that CO2 and other GHGs are increasing in their concentrations through human activities.

You've agreed that GHGs - EXACERBATE the greenhouse effect.

you have THEREFORE agreed that human activities EXACERBATE the green house effect.

you have THEREFORE agreed that human activities are, at least in part, contributing to the the increasing temperatures we're now observing.



You can't have this both ways loin. You can't claim that humans are contributing to the increases in GHGs, and then observe that GHGs increase GTs, and then claim that humans are NOT contributing to increased GTs.
By observing that humans are increasing GHG levels and that GHGs increase GTs, you are ALREADY conceding that AGW is active.

You've literally already said exactly that.


The other issue you've stupidly and continually overlooked - is that the planet has NEVER experienced the rapid increase in both GHG levels AND GTs.
This has simply never, ever, ever occurred before.


sorry loin, it's so weird to me that you both acknowledge the activities of humans increasing the amount of GHGs, but then forget that a GHG increases global temps.

it's so weird to me that you acknowledge GTs are increasing, but for some reason, you're attempting to find examples where that is not happening - i mean, yes, parts of antarctica are not melting as quickly as others. ... so? the overall ice mass most certainly is.

Loin, when it comes to science, when it comes to logic, when it comes to reason, to honesty, to being able to piece together facts and data, you are absolutely incompetent and dishonest.
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bonzono
bonzono: "Nobody disputes that humans have caused a rise in CO2 but the accompanying rise in temp has been coincidental and within natural climatic variability "

wrong. there has never once been a moment in the earth's observed history where temperatures have increased as rapidly as they are now.

it's beyond stupid to claim that humans are responsible for increasing GHGs, but then that the GHGs are not.. duh.. GHGs.

your statement is simply false, and you cannot show data which confirms otherwise.
(Edited by bonzono)
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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: I have asked you to go back to school and learn to read numerous times Bozo.I have never said what you claim above. I've said CO2 is a GHG albeit the mildest one.
Earth's climate has most certainly warmed faster than it is at present, many many times.
Climate forcing by CO2 has reached it's max level possible, it is saturated as any interferometer satellite data will confirm. I posted data about this ages ago and it's available still on Google. Don't give me any BS about Doppler shift, it doesn't exist in climate.
No, CO2's influence in current warming trends is so small it is immeasurable. The Greenhouse Effect is the result of water vapour mostly although it's likely some other GHGs will influence it eg: SF6 which is 23,000X more potent than CO2, CH4 seems to have become the big bad guy recently and this is mostly from natural sources.
(Edited by Sir Loin)
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bonzono
bonzono: sigh.


loin, you claim

1. humans are increasing CO2, methane, and water vapour.

2. you also claim CO2, methane, and water vapour are GHGs.

3. you also claim that GHGs increase GTs (which is why you call them GHGs )



1 - > 2 -> 3.


it's fantastic that your cognitive dissonance prevents you from seeing that you've made this logical syllogism, but you're actually mentally incapable of understanding the consquences of your OWN assertions.

Loin, it's astonishing that you think any peer review anywhere would pay attention to you, with your breathtaking inability to grasp and reason from your own claims.

really, you're enormously stupid and incapable loin.

(Edited by bonzono)
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bonzono
bonzono: "Don't give me any BS about Doppler shift, it doesn't exist in climate. "

no one said they did- what I said was that doppler broadening (which is what you've yet again incorrectly identified, symptomatic of your absolute inadequacy) increases the energy carrying-capacity of the ensemble

so, you can't even process your own syllogism, and you certainly can't understand the relevant physics.

"No, CO2's influence in current warming trends is so small it is immeasurable"
qualified people say otherwise, sorry kid. People who are not crackpots, people who are educated and understand the process, say you are flat out wrong.

sorry kid. You're utterly hopeless here.
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happensnow88
happensnow88: "Qualified People"? They are hirelings and tyrants hoping to profit from their CO2 scam.
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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: Bozo, you really need to learn how to read. I never claimed CH4 or water vapour are increased by man. I've also stated warming caused by CO2 is miniscule because it is the mildest of GHGs so stop lying
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bonzono
bonzono: interesting, true, you didn't, but I'd assumed you were aware of that - you're far more stupid than I gave you credit for..


so you're saying that the uptick in methane and water vapour is produced how?
do explain - oh, and if you think they're not tracking the uptick in CO2, you're in for a funny suprise.

go ahead, explain where they come from.
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bonzono
bonzono: happensnow88 - you're free to show any of the science available from these people are wrong.

Loin has failed miserably and he's filled this blog with lies and misinformation that I've been happily exposing him for (lying about science, failing to produce data, referring to conspiracy blogs). My money is on you failing miserably too, but... you can try to surprise me.
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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: CO2 is from fossil fuels mostly but it also comes from oxidation of CH4 which comes mostly from natural sources,
Or should I say the uptick of CO2 above that naturally produced by soil microbes is from industry, the soil being the primary source as it always has been
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bonzono
bonzono: I see.
and where does all the CO2, methane and water vapour that we're producing, go?
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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: Well duh! CO2 goes into the atmosphere. Little water vapour or CH4 are anthropogenic
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bonzono
bonzono: "I never claimed CH4 or water vapour are increased by man"....
looks like you did.

so the point you tried to dodge a few posts above, is still valid.

GHS increase global temps.
The amount of methane and water, and their high efficacy as a GHG makes them significant contribution to GTs.

sorry kid.
but.. you just admitted that humans increase the abundance of both high and low efficacy GHGs to the atmosphere, and do so in significant quantities.

(Edited by bonzono)
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bonzono
bonzono: "the uptick of CO2 above that naturally produced by soil microbes is from industry"

the uptick of naturally produced CO2 by industry...
oh dear... you do struggle with the meanings of words... natural industry?
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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: once again you're misquoting me Bozo. I didn't say water vapour and CH4 are anthropogenic. They are almost exclusively natural.
Where do you think water vapour comes from if not from the ocean surface?
CH4 is almost exclusively from anaerobic microbial activity in the soil or water.
I didn't mention "natural industry". Honestly your reading comprehension is abysmal.
I am responsible for what I post but I am not responsible for your ability to understand it. To quote you "It's a YOU thing"
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bonzono
bonzono: " I didn't say water vapour and CH4 are anthropogenic."
yes, you did -
"Little water vapour or CH4 are anthropogenic "



'I didn't mention "natural industry""
yes, you did. "he uptick of CO2 above that naturally produced by soil microbes is from industry"

CO2 that is naturally produced by microbes is from industry.




Of course, what you mean to say here - that you've so clumsily worded, is that the CO2 is produced naturally, but the abundance of microbes is exacerbated... by industry.

either way, it's industry that has upset the balance.


without human activities, we wouldn't be experiencing any of these effects.

ergo - it's AGW.
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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: Bozo, can't you read English?
There is little point in continuing this debate with someone who is incapable of comprehending the written word. Especially one as arrogant about it as you. It's like you want to parade the fact that you don't understand.
Either that or you're just a liar
(Edited by Sir Loin)
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GailNoLastName
GailNoLastName: Kind of anticipating this heat dome to end up in the UK. Then we will hear all the Brits screaming about global warming.
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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: I dont have access to some of the upper air charts I need to do an accurate prognosis for UK weather Gail but they can expect a week of summer rain with mild southerly winds beginning about 21 June. Dry spells in-between rain bands passing through.
I really need a chart giving geopotential heights for 500hpa over the Atlantic. This, or a 250hpa chart would indicate future movement of the surface features causing your heat dome
(Edited by Sir Loin)
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happensnow88
happensnow88: Hotter summer in baja california 2024
"California is expected to face another record-breaking hot summer in 2024. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) has predicted a chance that 2024 will be even warmer than last year, which was the planet’s hottest year on record.

Temperature Predictions

Above-average temperatures are predicted for much of California, with June expected to bring summerlike temperatures. The Weather Channel has also forecasted record-high temperatures in the U.S., although the predictions are less extreme for California."

Last year the sea temperature rose in Baja California up to the Los Angeles area, and Los Angeles almost had a small hurricane.

Today I Measured the Sun's angle; Based on that angle today at the Real Noon; The Tropic of Cancer is at about 25 to 27 degrees North compared to the classical latitude of 23 degrees N. That means the Sun is farther North than it used to be in the Northern Hemisphere Summer. Thus more heat!
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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: Interesting and definitely worth more investigation
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