Why is the climate changing. (Page 138)

ghostgeek: Yeah, there needs to be a lot of reinvention.

zeffur: re: "kittybobo34: Not for nothing, once the temps hit the magic point the huge releases of methane start, then the temps start climbing, the ice melts, coast lines go under, weather changes, massive die off of animals and plants that can't take the new climate. ... then not enough food or resources for the billions of people, wars start, when the dust settles, how many are left?"

Nature will manage mankind if mankind does not manage it's population growth. Enough will survive to restart & repeat their collective lack of wisdom...

kittybobo34: My bigger concern is, will civilization survive. Once the intricate web of research, knowledge, and production is broken, would that not cause a collapse like we saw when the Roman Empire died.. 500 years of dark ages.

zeffur: It depends on how hot it becomes & what impact that has on plant & animal life. Too hot & most life will die from the heat & massive storms that will occur due to a major increase in the water cycle.

Then when the climate cycles to an ice age most people will die (unless they are in temperate areas or they have access to plenty of fossil fuels & they can grow enough food indoors (assuming they can maintain their grow lights, nutrient supplies, air circulation, etc.

Those who rely solely on solar & battery tech will likely die if snow storms interfere with sunlight production & storage or they cannot manage an adequate indoor growing system.

As for civilization as we know it (culture, science, industry, & govt)--it will be radically changed until survival systems are stabilized. The difference now compared to Roman times is that we have better tech that can help us (solar panels, inverters, generators, HVAC systems, etc. Those that have the tech will continue to use it until it wears out. After scavenging ends, there may be no replacements as lots of manufacturing will likely come to an end due to so few living people & environmental conditions that may make it impossible to acquire raw materials (especially during an ice age).

It's smarter for people to establish human population management now than to wait for a collapse in civilization--but will we do it? Most countries will probably not do it in time. Some may have a good system for a limited number people for a short period of time, but they won't likely be able to manage it longer than their supplies will last (e.g. Norad--maybe 5 yrs max?)

kittybobo34: Growing crops indoors is taking root,, we have a wharehouse farm in Cincinnati

kittybobo34: They are really going in that direction strongly in Iceland,, they can grow crops 3x faster using LED lights.

zeffur: Yes, the systems are well established, but where will they get the additional nutrients that they will need to add to their soil or hydro-gro systems? Most people aren't farmers these days, so they don't know how much additional nutrients are added to growing systems. In an ice age it would very difficult or impossible to mine for such nutrients.

kittybobo34: In Iceland, they use horse manure,, usually a horse farm next door., but I suppose chemicals could be used too

zeffur: They will undoubtedly recycle all the waste materials that they can, but more nutrients will still need to be added to growing systems. As those dwindle, so will their populations unless they figure out how to get the resources that they will need.

kittybobo34: In Asia they tend to use human waste in the fertilizer.. seems to work for them.

ghostgeek: I expect it tones up the immune system.

zeffur: re: "kittybobo34: In Asia they tend to use human waste in the fertilizer.. seems to work for them."

That is problematic as people use medications that can end up in the food supply that way--and if not composted properly pathogens can also contaminate produce.

Human urine is a good source of N (9.3 g/L) & some K (25–125 mEq/L) as long as the source doesn't use any medication that can be excreted in the urine, doesn't intake too much sodium, & doesn't have any kind of urinary tract infections.

ghostgeek: There are nutters, and then there are NUTTERS:

Fifty years ago, I concluded that the best thing for the planet would be a peaceful phase-out of human existence. We’re causing the extinction of hundreds of thousands of other species. With us gone, I believe ecosystems will be restored and there will be enough of everything. No more fighting over resources. The idea wasn’t as well received as I had hoped.

[ https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/jan/10/i-campaign-for-the-extinction-of-the-human-race-les-knight ]

ghostgeek: If anybody wants to become extinct, and they live in America, all they have to do is toddle down to the local gun shop and make a purchase.

kittybobo34: ghost,,, we have a test when you buy one,, you have to eyeball the barrel and pull the trigger a few times to check if the bullets work.

ghostgeek: If it was true it might improve the situation in the U.S.

zeffur: re: "kittybobo34: ghost,,, we have a test when you buy one,, you have to eyeball the barrel and pull the trigger a few times to check if the bullets work."

What more does one need to kill a home intruder or burglar at night?

MJ59: Why kill?
Maiming for life with a baseball bat works wonders

zeffur: Burglars & intruders are often armed. What do you think your odds are against a criminal who has a 9mm pistol & you have baseball bat?

MJ59: Pretty good if he doesn't see me because of my excellent ninja skills!!

kittybobo34: No way I would want to face an angry ninja beaver.

zeffur: Especially with a baseball bat. Can you imagine the discipline he'd have to have to not put that bat onto his dam??

ghostgeek: So in the not so distant future the whole world is going electric? Better buy some quality insurance, then, because it seems there is a downside to electric cars:

Prof Christensen is a "massive fan" of the batteries and points out that they are perfectly stable under normal conditions.

However, he says that even small lithium-ion batteries, similar to the ones in your mobile phone, would explode "with a rocket flame" if punctured.

His real concern though is with the much bigger batteries found in electric cars, or used to store electricity in homes and businesses.

They are generally divided into many small cells and managed by software that keeps the battery running smoothly. But if a car crashes and some of those cells are damaged, the chemicals inside can generate huge of amounts of heat, damaging and igniting other cells.

"An electric vehicle will burn for much longer than an internal combustion vehicle. They give off potentially explosive and toxic fumes. They can reignite hours, days or weeks after the incident," says Prof Christensen.

[ https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54634802 ]

So no accidents, please, when you're out driving in your shiny, new electric car. Not unless you want your eyebrows singed, that is.

zeffur: The good news is that a 100 kWh li-ion battery contains much less energy than a 1 kton bomb (the bomb has ~11,622 times more energy than the battery)--and even during a car crash, it can't release all of that energy as fast as a bomb.

100 kWh battery = 360 million Joules
1 kton bomb = 4,184,000 million Joules

kittybobo34: The newer models of batteries don't have the exploding issue. They use a dry substrate between the lithium plates like a sheet of graphene.