Why is the climate changing. (Page 136) zeffur: Well, as I stated, it's just a starting point. People could politic to establish whatever seems responsible yet effective at creating a sustainable society rather than the increasing unchecked breeding of trailer trash that taxpayers pay to support via housing aid, food aid, & medical aid, etc. (Edited by zeffur)  kittybobo34: Zeff.. I do not see a way out of the coming crisis that you mention above.. Other than genetic engineering, We can correct allot of problems that would take generations if you do it by limited breeding methods. zeffur: The idea just has to be agreed to by enough people to establish the laws. Or we could create specific communities of people who agree to it & exclude others who don't agree & let them suffer as they breed like rabbits & their offspring die. That's what happens in some African populations. How much suffering do people need to witness & experience before they get a clue that there is a better way to manage themselves?? Civilized people just need to stop supporting the unsustainable behaviors of others who are not sexually responsible. Without suffering the consequences of their sexual irresponsibilities, what would cause such people to wise up? If you had a baby by 5 different men who weren't equal partners with you in providing for & caring for your children, one would think the suffering that you & your children would experience would help you to change your behavior--especially if we trained people in schools about the consequences of such sexual irresponsibilities when they are younger--kinda like training kids about the negatives consequences of drug use. It eventually caused a whole generation (mostly) to avoid using illegal drugs. Just say "No!" to stupid choices that can cause lots of negative consequences in your life can be effective, if taught well enough & early enough. (Edited by zeffur) kittybobo34: There is allot of truth in what you are saying Zeff But, getting everyone to agree is hopeless. zeffur: I don't think it is hopeless--but, then again, I'm certainly not willing to be the person to promote such a sensible set of ideas because I wouldn't want to be the spear catcher who would undoubtedly have to endure all of the hate & vitrol that some people would produce against such a movement. It's enough for me to just articulate a rough set of ideas that others can kick around & refine into something that is more acceptable to enough people to get it put into practice. (Edited by zeffur)  ghostgeek: As planet-warming greenhouse gas emissions continue to rise, some have been driven to explore desperate measures. One proposal put forward by the California-based non-profit Arctic Ice Project appears as daring as it is bizarre: to scatter a thin layer of reflective glass powder over parts of the Arctic, in an effort to protect it from the Sun’s rays and help ice grow back. “We’re trying to break [that] feedback loop and start rebuilding,” says engineer Leslie Field, an adjunct lecturer at Stanford University and chief technical officer of the organisation. ... Many scientists frown upon such technological interventions in Earth’s planetary system, known broadly as “geoengineering”, arguing that fiddling with nature might cause further damage. However, “the utter lack of progress on climate mitigation is really opening up a space for all of these [geoengineering] things to be discussed,” says Emily Cox, who studies climate policy and public attitudes towards geoengineering at the University of Cardiff. That said, the urgency does not erase the uncertainty. “What do you do if something goes wrong… especially in the Arctic, which is already a fairly fragile ecosystem?” [ https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200923-could-geoengineering-save-the-arctic-sea-ice?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB ] ghostgeek: Makes me wonder why somebody doesn't indulge in a little engineering of us humans. Could be the answer to global warming is gills. kittybobo34: I am holding hope that genetic engineering may save us in the long run. Other wise the race is doomed. zeffur: re: "Ghostgeek: One proposal put forward by the California-based non-profit Arctic Ice Project appears as daring as it is bizarre: to scatter a thin layer of reflective glass powder over parts of the Arctic, in an effort to protect it from the Sun’s rays and help ice grow back." The movie Snowpiercer was based on a similar idea--they ended up causing an ice age apocalypse when they screwed up nature with their interventions. (Edited by zeffur) zeffur: re: "kittybobo34: I am holding hope that genetic engineering may save us in the long run. Other wise the race is doomed." My bet is self-sustained space stations & planetary mining when raw materials are needed. Earth is self-regulating--when the conditions get bad enough it will collapse for a while (killing most life in the process) & then reset eventually--it'll just be a long time between habitable cycles unless we can figure out how to control the conditions (e.g. let it go into an ice age--wipe out everything) then use space based light reflectors to heat it back up after a nice cold period. Restock the earth from space based plant & animal arks & we're good for another 500k years or so... (Edited by zeffur) ghostgeek: It's a shame we can't all move on right now to somewhere new instead of having to stick with this worn out dust bowl we call earth. zeffur: Earth is fine--we just need to control human population growth... I live in a county that has ~4.7 million people. We do fine now--but, doubt or triple that population (which will happen if we don't control population growth) & it won't be such a fine place to live anymore. (Edited by zeffur) ghostgeek: What about when you hit fifty you get marched off to the gas chamber? That should help the public finances. zeffur: That's a European thang.. we prefer using sound reasoning & personal responsibility to control human behavior. zeffur: No, I don't mean killing any people. I mean controlling births by license & enforcement of laws when irresponsible people violate those laws. I mean planting lots of CO2 consuming plants to help manage CO2 until a viable vehicle tech alternative can be affordable & practical in most places. Maybe electric cars aren't practical for the long term in very cold area. If we have a mix of 80% electric & 20% petrol then that's an improvement. You know do things smarter than we are doing today & control population growth to what is deemed a practical density in each area. (Edited by zeffur)  Sir Loin: Zeff, CO2 doesn't drive climate change. Its caused by peaks and lows in the solar flare cycle zeffur: Ok.. Then we could deploy a controllable array of reflectors to limit exactly the amount of light that we want striking the earth. There's a sweet spot between earth & the sun where a minimum of such reflectors would be required. zeffur: re: "ghostgeek: They tried controlling population growth in China and India. How did it work out?" There are worse & better ways of doing things...Their's failed, so other things should be tried. ghostgeek: But if making everyone prosperous is going a little too far, here's something that seems to work: Car seat laws are acting as a form of contraception, a study has found, as women with two children are eight per cent less likely to have a third as they can't find enough space in the vehicle.... [ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/03/child-car-seat-laws-acting-form-contraception-study-finds/ ] ghostgeek: The birth rate in prosperous Western countries isn't what it was: The average birth rate in the European Union is 1.6, well below the 2.1 live births per woman needed to sustain a population, and the global average of 2.4. Coupled with aging societies, consequences include villages with only a handful of people left; no staff to care for the elderly; a dwindling labor force to sustain economic growth. There are good reasons governments have struggled to find a solution. Firstly, the decline is down to positive social developments, starting from improved infant mortality and the end of child labor. People no longer need an army of children to ensure some survive to work the land. More recently, opportunities for migration, universal access to contraception, the increase of women in higher education and greater female participation in the labor force have led many to delay starting their families. [ https://time.com/5291439/west-population-problem-white-nationalists-policies/ ] ghostgeek: The only way governments seem able to openly address the issue is with slightly smutty campaigns launched with a knowing wink: Denmark has urged its citizens to a “Do it for Denmark” and have more sex on vacations; Poland produced a video calling on its citizens “to breed like rabbits.” [ https://time.com/5291439/west-population-problem-white-nationalists-policies/ ] | Science Chat Room 3 People Chatting Similar Conversations |