Why is the climate changing. (Page 122)

kittybobo34
kittybobo34: The extra co2, that has warmed the planet to the point of releasing the vast stores of methane (22x more greenhouse gas than co2),, this world blanket is allowing the North and South poles to warm faster than the equator, thus slowing the Jet streams that feed off the temperature difference between the poles and the equator. Slower Jet stream is wandering all over the place instead of straight west to east. This is bringing freaky weather way south as well as north. This is the theory of many Climatologists at the moment.
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Fractured fairy tale
Fractured fairy tale: Yes I agree with you on that
Zeffer
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zeffur
zeffur: re: "kittybobo34: Slower Jet stream is wandering all over the place instead of straight west to east. This is bringing freaky weather way south as well as north. This is the theory of many Climatologists at the moment."

Spring here this year has been the best weather in the past 30+ years!
Hang in there jetstream--summer's coming! lol
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Fractured fairy tale
Fractured fairy tale: How do you Know The north pole hasn't shifted Kitty . Magnetic North isnt were it used to be a Hundred years ago.
There only been taking pictures of the earth for 50 years. Seems to me they come up with a theroy and try to prove its Correct.
Mankind is too arrogant. Thinks it can change nature. Were got dominion over nature . Should co exist with it not try and change it
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OldGermanGuy
(Post deleted by OldGermanGuy 10 days ago)
OldGermanGuy
OldGermanGuy: For some years now, our foresters and farmers in Germany are complaining that the weather has become too dry, forests are dying etc. They put this "climate change" down to global warming (and call for government help).

But if you look at the yearly monsoon of SE Asia (India), then WARMING in the summer brings rain (#Asia inhales#), and COOLING in the winter brings drought (#Asia exhales#). The point being that in summer the Asian land mass is warmer than, in winter cooler than the Indian Ocean, and winds coming from the north dry the country, as all its water vapor has been shed and / or retained as snow.

So, MY current personal feeling is that global warming would bring us, over here, more rain via the gulf stream, with westerly winds; but not if the vapor precipitates (as snow? as rain?) up north before coming to us via northern winds, which we seem to be having quite a lot these days: sunny, dry, and cool.

So I am not sure the local momentary dryness is down to global warming; it could be just the opposite.

A bit like here:

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NyM8Qp5b9Hk/Wd_YnpjmU8I/AAAAAAAABJc/q5HrrZPTJUsP44rsOZRY-JtfGSVIAF_lgCLcBGAs/s1600/Wuestenguertel.jpg
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kittybobo34
kittybobo34: Fft,, re Magnetic North pole. You're right magnetic north / South has moved many times. Fortunately that is a help since lava from volcanoes solidifies in alignment with the poles. So we know the dates of these shifts, which gives us another dating system all over the world to cross reference with. As far as I know the shifts haven't been too large, moving from near Hawaii toward the present pole as it is now. PS, this is also true with reefs, the little iron molecules in reef cores have an alignment at the time the layer is made.
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kittybobo34
kittybobo34: Blackshoes,, re Whales. You can't seem to accept the idea of whales having once been land animals even though their skeleton reflects that.
I was wondering if you ever considered a mid point transition which is around today. Seals, Walrus, They still have rear feet, even though those feet are starting to look a bit like whale flukes.
(Edited by kittybobo34)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Some people maintain that every so often the earth's crust, as a whole, slides over the mantle. Thus, they say, Atlantis is now under the ice at the South Pole.
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zeffur
zeffur: The Cause of the Earth's Magnetic Field Reversals:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-causes-the-periodic/

The Sun's Magnetic Field is about to Flip:
https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/the-suns-magnetic-field-is-about-to-flip/

The Sun's Magnetic Field Flip & Solar Cycle info:
https://www.weather.gov/news/190504-sun-activity-in-solar-cycle

We are currently near the solar minimum. The next solar max will be ~2024

Anyone have an explanation for how the following statement is true?
"Our model predicted that the solid inner core, being magnetically coupled to the eastward fluid flow above it, should rotate slightly faster than the surface of the Earth. This prediction was recently supported by studies of seismic waves passing through the core."

It seems to me that the earth is rotating & the fluids below most likely are rotating like the oceans above (i.e. in sync with the rotation of earth). The fluid & solid core beneath should be in sync with the rotation of the earth. If so, how is a dynamo effect being generated? Currents in the ocean are causes by temperature differences & salinity differences, so I imagine the fluid motion (current) beneath the surface may be primarily driven by temperature differences generated by the sun on the crust that I guess must squeeze the fluid beneath in a certain direction as the crust expands & contracts slightly when it is heated & cooled. I'm open to other ideas if anyone wants to offer one or more.
(Edited by zeffur)
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OldGermanGuy
OldGermanGuy:
Zeffur: Do you mean something like this?

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/c9BZHmSJmWAHBYwTB/what-is-driving-the-continental-drift

The core of the earth, being of heavier material, rotates faster than the surface, dragging the continents along. This is the cause and motor of continental drift.

The continents are therefore drifting eastwards, by the way. Well, not really *drifting*. They are being *pulled* eastward, on the whole.

So it should be called "continental pull" - no, "continental push" because that's what *they* do. They are being pushed and pulled east, so there are no Rocky / Andes mountains on the eastern border, for instance.

Nowhere.

(Edited by OldGermanGuy)
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zeffur
zeffur: @OldGermanGuy:

Thanks for the link, but continental drift results in techtonic plate movement of only about 2.5 cm/year.

What I was asking about is how there is any difference in the earth rotation rate vs the inner liquid core rotation rate vs the inner solid core rotation rate. It seems to me if we rotate a whole fresh egg gradually, then the shell rotation rate would be identical to the inner contents (i.e. albumin & yolk) rotation rate (meaning they would be in synchronicity). The earth & the inner liquid core & inner solid core should rotate at the same rate as the outer surface of the planet. Do you have any idea why someone would think the inner liquid core spins at a different rate than the rotation rate of earth? If there is no difference in the rotation rate of the solid core & liquid core & earth, then how is the magnetic field of earth created?
(Edited by zeffur)
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kittybobo34
kittybobo34: Zeff,, you are right about the drift per year but then add millions of years and suddenly there is a channel where there wasn't one before. The pattern of ice ages and warm periods started about 7 million years ago. The thinking is that this changed the path of the ocean currents under certain climatic circumstances, such as blocked by ice, then open again..

Re: the planet rotation and the core. You would be right if the whole system was static but the core is driven by a gigantic nuclear pile, generating heat and movement on its own. Just how its keeping the iron core moving is an unknown to me, but my best guess is that its like boiling water, rising over the hot spots and sinking elsewhere. That would account
for the plate movements and the magnetic field fluctuations.
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OldGermanGuy
OldGermanGuy:

Zeffur / Kitty:

That's just the point - the system is dynamic, not static; all gravitational stellar systems are.

Imagine the egg you mentioned made of a tough material such pressurized molten rock; only then, if you then rotate the yolk (core) faster than the shell, this could break up the shell, resulting in shell fragment (continental shelf) movement.

So, if anything, the fact that the continents move is a sure sign that there is something going on beneath the surface.

"Our model predicted that the solid inner core, being magnetically coupled to the eastward fluid flow above it, should rotate slightly faster than the surface of the Earth. This prediction was recently supported by studies of seismic waves passing through the core."

- they say at a rate of about 1 extra revolution every millennium. Which is a lot.


Kitty: Over the millenia, the continental movement is much too directional (mountain buildup, rift widening) to be caused by random thermal upwellings.

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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: Now now Zeff and Fairy, play nicely boys.
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Sir Loin
Sir Loin: Old guy, pushing would be the better term for continental drift. Tectonic plates are being forced apart as magma upwells forming new seabed at the junction of the plates. At other points one plate will subduct and slide down into the gap. The earths crust is constantly being recycled and renewed
(Edited by Sir Loin)
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zeffur
zeffur: re: "kittybobo34: the core is driven by a gigantic nuclear pile, generating heat and movement on its own. Just how its keeping the iron core moving is an unknown to me, but my best guess is that its like boiling water, rising over the hot spots and sinking elsewhere. That would account for the plate movements and the magnetic field fluctuations."

That ^^ is interesting. Is there any real evidence from the upflow of magma that radioactive nuclear material is present in high quantities or is that a much deeper process whose heat affects the layers much higher above it which act as a buffer to prevent such radioactive material from ever reaching the surface? I've never seen anything stating such material is highly radioactive. Where has the gigantic nuclear pile theory come from?

Why would there be hotspots? How could there be an uneven distribution of nuclear activity & why would there be a convection under the surface vs heat from the reaction just rising until it penetrates earth's crust at weak spots (building up with magma until they become stronger spots & then breaking through at other weaker spots as time & activity (including erosion that changes the surface distribution of materials) change the structure of the crust?

re: "OldGermanGuy: - they say at a rate of about 1 extra revolution every millennium. Which is a lot."

I can't see how such a slow movement could create the magnetic field on earth. If you study how a dynamo works, there is a significant amount of movement needed to generate a stable magnetic field.

This is an interesting video:


If that ^^ info is valid, then the questions that I have are:
1. What is actually creating earth's internal heating (from the core to the subsurface)?

2. Is it a gigantic nuclear pile as Gail suggests & how can we be certain or is it something else like maybe the surface pressure caused by the semi-floating crust, it's movement (expansion & contraction caused by solar heating), &/or solar radiation contributing in some other way?

I also wonder if the rotation of earth in space may be creating the magnetic field in some way. Perhaps such a large mass rotating in space some how produces a small magnetic field on the surface that is somehow amplified inside the earth. The professor in the video stated essentially spinning the balls caused no dynamo effect, but, inducing a small external magnetic field caused an amplified internal magnetic field within their structure. Perhaps the same thing happens with earth & that magnetic field may produce the internal heating some how?

Another interesting tidbit from that video is that the intensity/strength of the earth's magnetic field has supposedly dropped ~10% in the past 170 yrs. I wonder how much of an affect that has on earth's warming. Maybe at 6.5% magnetic field weakening, a threshold was reached in which enough energetic solar particles now enter into earth's system (atmosphere, water, & land) to cause an increase in warming--something to consider...
(Edited by zeffur)
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Fractured fairy tale
Fractured fairy tale: Yeah Zeff you shouldn't of sent a Swab into Ancestry.Com Now your on the DNA
Data base
lol
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Fractured fairy tale
Fractured fairy tale: No Id Say there Is no Evidence of some Nuclear reactor in the centre of the Earth
Its Just what people are Taught in School.
I can't see Volcanoes spewing out Radioactivity.
What is School any way . Answers Someone has come up with to explain things. If you don't follow there process and Conclusions. You Fail
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Fractured fairy tale
Fractured fairy tale: What do any of us Really know . Most people repeat what they Think they know Cos thats what there been taught.or Told by Authority
There never looked into any alternative explanation on there Own .
And they get verry Upset when someone rocks the apple cart .
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: If Socrates is to be believed we actually know sod all, although it may have been Plato who said it.
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Fractured fairy tale
Fractured fairy tale: Well who ever said what . Im Inclined to agree.
lol
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zeffur
zeffur: re: "Fractured fairy tale: Yeah Zeff you shouldn't of sent a Swab into Ancestry.Com Now your on the DNA Data base lol"

They don't have my DNA (as far as I know). Use the following info & sequence your own DNA:


http://english.www.gov.cn/news/top_news/2017/08/01/content_281475765853450.htm

https://www.biocompare.com/Molecular-Biology/23967-Whole-Genome-Sequencer-Whole-Genome-Analyzer/

Given the .3% inaccuracy tolerance, it would be a good idea to rerun your DNA until you get a 100% accuracy--otherwise when you clone yourself for body parts, you might end up with chimp parts.
(Edited by zeffur)
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kittybobo34
kittybobo34: Fft,,, re " No Id Say there Is no Evidence of some Nuclear reactor in the centre of the Earth "

There is the echo grams that have been used to sense the densities of the interior, and simple physics, heavy things sink. On a melted planet the heaviest elements would sink to the middle, with the most common element around it Iron. The churning of the iron is evident in the magnetic field we experience. Someone mentioned that the iron would be turning with the earth and that would offer no magnetic field at all, Mars would be a fair example of that. So yes there is ample evidence of a nuclear core in our planet.
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Fractured fairy tale
Fractured fairy tale: How Come Lava isnt Radio active Then
Hawaii should be like Chynoval uninhabitable
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