Do you believe in Aliens? (Page 10)

StuckInTheSixties:

Hoover's discovery, as noted in the foxnews article, is interesting. However, this particular line in the article merits attention:

Hesitancy to believe new claims is something common and necessary to the field of science, Hoover said.

The discovery.com article is basically a (better) version of the same story.

In it, NASA's chief astrobiologist David McKay says:

"Well, we've been here before, and the past claims of alien life discoveries (whether it be in a meteorite sample or on the Martian surface) have been notoriously difficult to confirm. Also, this isn't the first time Hoover has announced such discoveries. I think there will be a far more measured response to this new research, and it will probably take years and dozens of follow-up studies to confirm or deny this extraordinary claim."

But both articles emphasize that Hoovers "discovery" is completely unverified, though interesting. It deserves more scrutiny, but I wouldn't be jumping up and down proclaiming "Alien life has been found!" just yet.

Shannonjm400: Well. We're the youngest planet so that always lead me to feel other life forms are out there.
It only makes sense. Anyone that doesn't believe in aliens are silly.

StuckInTheSixties:

"We're the youngest planet ..."

???

Youngest of any planet in our solar system? Youngest planet in the universe?

Elaborate, please.

Shannonjm400: All I know is the earth is many millions of years younger than so many planets out there.
I feel other life forms are out there that can take us over if we had something of value to them.

StuckInTheSixties:

"All I know is the earth is many millions of years younger than so many planets out there."

Which planets?

And how do you know that? Please provide some references so we know you're not just pulling "facts" out of thin air.

thisis26: I believe in aliens, and nobody can convince me otherwise! O.O

StuckInTheSixties:

Why do you believe in aliens?

Shannonjm400: I agree. It only makes sense to know they exist. I get so angry when I hear ignorant people tell me that we're the only life form. LMAO

thisis26: because there's so much out there that we can't even conceive! why wouldn't there be aliens? why wouldn't there be something else out there that is as intelligent if not more intelligent than humans? billions of planets, eons of time! There has to be something. Maybe not even aliens as we can think of them, like tall lanky green people, but something!

StuckInTheSixties:

Shannonjm400, can you answer my questions?

thisis26 says:
"because there's so much out there that we can't even conceive!"

One thing it's possible to conceive is that we're alone. That's no more difficult to conceive than if we're not. It's just a matter of conceiving it.

thisis26 says:
"why wouldn't there be aliens? why wouldn't there be something else out there that is as intelligent if not more intelligent than humans? billions of planets, eons of time!"

No one (certainly not me) is saying that aliens don't exist, just that there is no EVIDENCE of them.

thisis26 says:
"There has to be something."

But there is no evidence one way or the other. Without evidence, it's irrational to assume that aliens exist. They might, they might not. There's no evidence. That the universe is large and complex doesn't constitute evidence of other life. Until evidence is found, it's only rational to consider that it's possible that we might be alone.

Shannonjm400: It's just common sense. Why answer it in detail? Other life forms do exist. Enough said.
Science has proven that. Why do you think we spend all the money we do on space travel?
We all know it has something to do with aliens. I bet we already communicate with them/

Shannonjm400: "TAKE ME TO YOUR LEADER" lmao

StuckInTheSixties:

Okay.

There is an entire universe of tiny little unicorns that live in a cigar box in my dresser drawer. They're too small to detect by any known means, but I believe them to be there. **

There's no evidence of that, of course, just as there's no evidence of extra-terrestrial life.

So other then the fact that one of those two hypotheticals seems more "sciencey" then the other, why is one hypothetical any more believable than the other?





** simple analogy, not my actual beliefs

thisis26: What would you consider efficient evidence?
There are multiple claims of abductions, encounters, videos, unexplained sights and happenings. I realize thats all very vague, but one could say the same about almost anything. For example; do ghosts exist? does Bigfoot exist? etc. but these are all phenomena that are hard to verify. All the things I listed above can all be disproven by many other explanations, but disproving something, arguably, is easier than proving something.

I personally have a belief that if some things are such a popular phenomenon than its likely they are more true than not. Again, for example, why are there so many accounts of abductions and sights if they didn't actually happen?

StuckInTheSixties:

Shannonjm400:
"Science has proven [the existence of extra-terrestrial life]."

Okay, if that's the case, it would be very easy for you to show a reference to that. Please do.

Shannonjm400:
"Why do you think we spend all the money we do on space travel"

To explore and see what's there.

Shannonjm400: I only feel with all the BIGFOOT sightings that so many couldn't get a better pic,video or something.

thisis26: Yeah, thats true...
And I guess with all the accounts and stuff it could easily be said that some/most are lying.

I personally have a phobia of aliens, and a phobia is an IRRATIONAL fear, and I agree it is irrational. I have a cabin out in the woods in north Alberta and whenever I'm there I have dreams that Aliens are on my lot. I almost never dream about them when I'm home, at least to my knowledge. Why would I only dream about them at the cabin? Unless I was encountered aliens there and had my memory wiped, but the location brings back ideas and feelings?! And in that case it wouldn't be an irrational fear. I'd be conditioned!

HAHA! I know thats really far fetched! XD
I'm just a superstitious person! I generate theories on my phobia.

Shannonjm400: Look at the movie "Fire In The Sky" I remember the documentary before the movie came out.
All those men passed lie detector tests and everything else and people shunned them. People are afraid of the unknown.

thisis26: OH GEEZ! That movie scared me so bad! D:
Signs is the scariest thing I've ever seen.
I watch all those TV shows that provide reasons that humans are the creation of Aliens and ancient creations are by Aliens and all that good stuff and to me it all seems uncomfortably plausible. 8(

StuckInTheSixties:

thisis26 says:
"What would you consider efficient evidence?"

Evidence that meets the scientific definition of the words "scientific evidence," not unverified anecdotal claims.

thisis26 says:
"There are multiple claims of abductions, encounters, videos, unexplained sights and happenings. I realize thats all very vague"

Exactly. Those "claims" do not constitute evidence. They are just what you've said: "claims."

thisis26 says:
"but one could say the same about almost anything."

No. Many things are verified by science. But many things aren't. There's a difference.

thisis26 says:
"For example; do ghosts exist? does Bigfoot exist? etc. but these are all phenomena that are hard to verify."

Exactly. They're unverified by science. Therefore, it would be irrational to believe in their existence until verified. Same with aliens.

thisis26 says:
"All the things I listed above can all be disproven by many other explanations, but disproving something, arguably, is easier than proving something."

No, you're misunderstanding a basic tenet of logic, that it's impossible to prove a negative. Here is a detailed explanation of that concept:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot

thisis26 says:
"I personally have a belief that if some things are such a popular phenomenon than its likely they are more true than not."

Millions of people used to believe the world was flat. Did that make it flat? Many people used to believe in dragons. Did that make dragons exist? Many people used to believe in fairies. Did that make fairies exist?

thisis26 says:
"Again, for example, why are there so many accounts of abductions and sights if they didn't actually happen?"

There are a multitude of very plausible reasons for accounts of abductions. Let's start with the fact that people have always had vivid imaginations, and a propensity to bullshit.

Shannonjm400: I was 9 years old when my grandfather came by our home to tell us at 2am of what he saw while walking his dog in his wooded property. He swears he saw a UFO so low to the ground!
He never called the cops due to the fact that no none listened to those reports like they do now.
He was a cop then and had to think about his job. lmao

StuckInTheSixties:

Have either of you two guys ever heard of Carl Sagan?

Shannonjm400: Yes I have heard of him. Very bright man.

thisis26: I like that teapot analogy! Very useful!

I will say however that the question is "do yo believe in Aliens?"
and my answer is "yes"
It's a belief. I don't know how to prove it, I just believe it. Be that ignorant, than so be it, but I can't explain why I can believe in something that is not scientifically proven.
How do we know that this so called "scientific proof" is even worth anything?
I'm currently studying philosophy in university and I bring up the argument, what if your scientific proof is no more real than Aliens? and what evidence do you have for that? All may not be as it seems.

StuckInTheSixties:

Sagan was a very bright man, a personal hero of mine. I miss him dearly

His best talent was his ability to explain complex things in ways that regular people, like you and I, can understand.

I recommend that you avail yourselves to one of his books, a book written just for arguments like this. It's at your local library. It's very interesting, entertaining, and relatively easy to read.

It's called:

"The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark"

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Demon-Haunted_World

He answers your questions far better than I ever could.