Risens Thread (Page 2)

☀▃▂▁/V\iragε▁▂▃☀
☀▃▂▁/V\iragε▁▂▃☀: twinkle twinkle little star
how I wonder what you are
up above the world so high
like a diamond in the sky
twinkle twinkle little star
how I wonder what you are


13 years ago Report
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Smiling_Bandito
Smiling_Bandito: By the way, love the conversation as well, gives me a chance to flex my (mental) muscles.

For the 10% thing, I neva said that we do not use all our brains, just that only about 10% on average is stuff we can conscienously control. Referencing your article, no I am not someone who believes in telekinesis anywhere besides the world of fiction. But if we could consciously control everything our brains do then we would never have an allergic reaction, we could turn our immune systems off when we ingested something we were allergic to or edit the code so that we were not allergic to it anymore. We could commit suicide simply by saying, I wanna stop breathing, and just stop. But unless something is restricting the airway, however long you hold your breath you will eventually inhale. You can make yourself happy or sad, but you cannot tell the brain to stop producing excess amounts of seratonin short of medication. You cannot forget to make your heart beat, tell it to stop, you cannot tell your pituitary gland to get to work so you can be taller. And even people with photographic memory cannot personally remember the day they were born. We can effect brain function through external means, but if we were able to consciously control the entire functionality of the brain we could do all these things internally. It is a myth that humans use only 10% of the brain and the rest of it lies fallow and unused. It's also not what I was saying.

For the life arguement, it is not true that the environment in which we live is the only one we know of that produces life. It IS true that this is the only environment we know of that supports SENTIENT life, but not life itself. There are environments on this planet that humans cannot live in unsupported like the bottom of the ocean or inside a volcanic vent. We can visit the top of Mt Everest, but we couldn't live there because there isn't enough air. And yet life exists in all these environments. It isn't sentient, but it exists. There is evidence of life on 2 extraterrestrial bodies in our own solar system and potential history of a third. They have found signs of sentient life on both Titan and Europa. Two very different environments (one nitrogen and one water-ice respectively), and even though Mars is a dead planet (geologically speaking) there is evidence that life may have once existed there. None of them may have been sentient, but they either do exist or have existed in our solar system history. There is nothing unique about our star. It's a regular G2 star and there are billions like it in our galaxy (though not necessarily in our immediate stellar neighborhood). Now say that only stars of our type can support life of any kind, sentient or not. With nothing particularly unique about our solar system, our Sun, our planet, it may be a reach to say that life could have developed elsewhere, but not a huge one. And although we may never meet them (still a little problem physics has to work out concerning a light speed speed limit), I would consider it a stretch to think that they aren't out there at all. And that's just under the assumption (because we have nothing factual to go on) that G2 stars with no binary or trinary companions are the only ones that can support sentient life or life at all for that matter. If other sentient species require different real estate, then the possibilities for life existing elsewhere increase exponentially. Just because there are no facts to support or disprove it yet doesn't take away from the strong possibility that we are not alone.
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Smiling_Bandito
Smiling_Bandito: Europa has water. A layer of water ice probably as thick as the earth's crust(burrr it's cold out there!) but has a hot core, proven by thermal imaging of that moon. So there is an extraterrestrial source of H20, and it's relatively close to us. I wouldn't recommend walking there but we could make it in less than 10 years with current technology.
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StuckInTheSixties
StuckInTheSixties: Mikey says:
"They have found signs of sentient life on both Titan and Europa."

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "signs," but any reasonable person would assume that in this context, "signs" would be synonymous with "evidence." So I HAVE to ask you to provide reference to this. Actual LIFE? Living life sentient or otherwise? Or fossil remains or something? Prove it, please.

Mikey says:
"... even though Mars is a dead planet (geologically speaking) there is evidence that life may have once existed there."

Well, that statement is pretty wide open. Since you're assuming that life might exist in all sorts of forms completely different than anything we know about, you might as well say that "there is evidence that life may have once existed [pick any location in the universe].

There is either evidence, or there isn't. It makes no sense to say that there MAY be evidence. You're abusing the meaning of the word "evidence."

Mikey says:
"There is nothing unique about our star."

Agree. Never said there was.

Mikey says:
"It's a regular G2 star and there are billions like it in our galaxy (though not necessarily in our immediate stellar neighborhood)."

Quite true. And that provides a strong suggestion that something like we have here might be elsewhere. But a suggestion is not evidence.

Mikey says:
"... it may be a reach to say that life could have developed elsewhere ..."

It may, or may not be a "reach." We just don't know. No evidence one way or the other.

Mikey says:
"...I would consider it a stretch to think that they aren't out there at all."

Again, that comes down to the difference between a suggestion and evidence.

Mikey says:
"Europa has water. A layer of water ice probably as thick as the earth's crust(burrr it's cold out there!) but has a hot core, proven by thermal imaging of that moon. So there is an extraterrestrial source of H20, and it's relatively close to us. I wouldn't recommend walking there but we could make it in less than 10 years with current technology."

Europa is really exciting, but although we may have the technology ... a BIG maybe ... mankind doesn't have the will. Not yet. In my opinion, not in our lifetime. Maybe not ever. Who knows? (shrugs) Given the political and economic ramifications of such an endeavor, I'm not holding my breath.
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Smiling_Bandito
Smiling_Bandito: fossil records from the mars mission in 2004 found what may have been protobacteria. Whether they have determined that that was indeed what they were seeing i'm not sure about, hence my comment. I didn't want to present untrue information. As for Titan, Wikipedia has this to say:

The atmosphere of Titan is largely composed of nitrogen; minor components lead to the formation of methane and ethane clouds and nitrogen-rich organic smog. The climate—including wind and rain—creates surface features similar to those of Earth, such as sand dunes, rivers, lakes and seas (probably of liquid methane or ethane) and shorelines, and, like on Earth, is dominated by seasonal weather patterns. With its liquids (both surface and subsurface) and robust nitrogen atmosphere, Titan is viewed as analogous to the early Earth, although at a much lower temperature. The satellite has thus been cited as a possible host for microbial extraterrestrial life or, at least, as a prebiotic environment rich in complex organic chemistry. Researchers have suggested a possible underground liquid ocean might serve as a biotic environment.[11][12] It has also been suggested that a form of life may exist on the surface, using liquid methane as a medium instead of water; and anomalies in atmospheric composition have been reported which are consistent with the presence of such a life-form, but which could also be due to an exotic non-living chemistry.[13]

To be fair, Titan and Europa are probably unachievable in our lifetime for whatever reason. Technology and the world economic situation may not allow us to completely confirm the evidence we do possess. But the existence of two orbital bodies relatively close to us with conditions to support life as We know it, plus a third which may show signs of life in its planetary history, added to what we know of the adaptabily and tenacity of life in the varied environments of our own planet leaves me more than prepared to say with confidence that there is life elsewhere than Earth. Sentience is a little harder, but what is so special about the Human Race that it couldn't have developed elsewhere under similar conditions? Like Jeff Goldbloom in Jurassic Park said, "life finds a way". Dinosaurs in fact help my case, because a dominant species developed on this planet 2wice, under 2 different types of climate patterns. And there's always the Dolphins to consider.
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LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: >>>And yet life exists in all these environments.

Yes, but this just begs the question; if we are saying life can appear in conditions that would be uninhabitable for us- how does inanimate matter form into animate matter. Under what conditions does this event happen.

Sure, we could transfer these lifeforms(and frankly, I'm disappointed NASA isn't doing it- I'd love to see how those vent worms would last on Venus)- but that isn't life forming on its own.

>>>They have found signs of sentient life on both Titan and Europa.

Care to elaborate?

>>>there is evidence that life may have once existed there.

And that's exciting. I look forward to learning more about that planet.


Lol and Titan is really interesting, I gotta agree, the lakes of liquid methane is interesting.....
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StuckInTheSixties
StuckInTheSixties: Mikey says:
"fossil records from the mars mission in 2004 found what may have been protobacteria."

???

First of all, "fossils" imply life. Period. If something is a fossil, it's a fossil of something that was once living. Period. So it would either be a fossil, or it wouldn't be. And I could find nothing on the web that seemed like what you were referring to. This really needs a reference and details, Mikey. Please.

Mikey says:
"what is so special about the Human Race that it couldn't have developed elsewhere under similar conditions?"

No one's saying that it couldn't. Just that there's no evidence that it HAS.

Mikey says:
"Like Jeff Goldbloom in Jurassic Park said, 'life finds a way'."

Yes, but he was talking about something totally different. He was talking about a failed attempt to genetically manufacture sexless animals that "found a way" to reproduce. And it was a work of fiction. A GREAT work of fiction, but fiction, nevertheless.

Mikey says:
"Dinosaurs in fact help my case, because a dominant species developed on this planet 2wice, under 2 different types of climate patterns. And there's always the Dolphins to consider."

I have no idea what you're getting at here.
13 years ago Report
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StuckInTheSixties
StuckInTheSixties: I wonder what happened to Risen? Jeezus! You go and make a thread especially for the guy, and what gratitude do ya get? None!

Would Jesus do that?
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LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: I didn't really make a topic for him to answer- I made a topic to make his objections obvious for all what they truly are- bullshit. I knew he wouldn't answer. Just as he didn't answer in the other topic. He simply wanted to pretend such questions did not merit answering or consideration- and they do, and I wasn't going to let him continue that delusion.
13 years ago Report
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StuckInTheSixties
StuckInTheSixties: I wish it hadn't just been lost in the deep recesses of Wireclub Forums, but him and I conducted a very long, very detailed, sometime really hilarious debate about the scientific validity of the Noah's Ark story. Jeezus, you wouldn't BELIEVE some of the stuff he came up with!

He finally bailed out on it with the lame excuse that he thought it was unfair or something that every time he'd come up with some reason to support the story, I'd find a bunch of stuff to refute it, copy/paste the relevant material, and cite the website(s) where it came from. He tired of that. I can remember some of the stuff he came up with:

Q: How did the ark hold so many animals?
A: It only held a few. The multitudes of species we now have evolved AFTER the flood.

Q: How did the Ark's animals get to islands, and places like Australia?
A: Before and after the flood, it was only one big land mass, and it separated into the present day continents AFTER the flood.

Q: Where did all the water come from, and where did it all go?
A: It came up from subterranean caverns in the earth, somehow was converted into rain, and rained. Then after the flood, it went back to the caverns from where it had come.

It was pages and pages of that sort of shit. It made for good reading.
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LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: Lol I saw this just now and it made me think of him

http://www.splitreason.com/Product_Images/c0798bd528f5-xl.jpg
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i_sale
i_sale: we will all explode. i hope.and i dont care about that at all. lol.
(Edited by i_sale)
7 years ago Report
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Sounds like the world is getting too much for some poor sod.
7 years ago Report
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i_sale
i_sale: With no air to breathe. Of course. My horse. L0L
7 years ago Report
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