Most atheists dont know about science (Page 360)

TheloniousSphereMonk: Bobby....how much do you think your average scientist or academic makes, save the odd one that has risen to celebrity status? I betcha its not as much as you may think.

And also, why limit the love of money to the academics? The Bible does not limit it in such a way. How much are Ken ham and other celebrity creationists making?

MJ59:
“Money can't buy you happiness but it does bring you a more pleasant form of misery.”

― Spike Milligan

KeithJ: Fake arsed preachers
How much does it cost to go see Joel Osteen? Currently the average price for Joel Osteen tickets is $30. and has net worth of 60 million.

Pastor Joyce Meyer net worth: Pastor Joyce Meyer is an American bible teacher, author, and motivational speaker who has a net worth of $8 million dollars

TD Jakes Ministries brings in about $30 million a year

Kenneth Copeland,, US$300 million

Pastor Joseph Prince net worth and salary: Pastor Joseph Prince is a Singaporean pastor who has a net worth of $5 million dollars.

Creflo Dollar is an American Word of Faith teacher, pastor, and the founder of the non-denominational World Changers Church International based in Fulton County, Georgia and has a net worth of $27 million.

and the list goes on and people give it to them ,, religion i guess is a money scam .

and sort of like trump had been with his scams too ,casino,,TU,,land building take overs with investors duped by bankruptcies ect ect and people don't remember ? and followed his sorry ass ?

kittybobo34: Keith,, I picked up on that even as a kid.. like all scammers they tell people what they want to hear...

Blackshoes: Now where have I heard that before LOL " like all scammers they tell people what they want to hear"

Interesting that you almost always believe that which tickles your ears from your academic priest ', yet claim to recognize when others are deceived.

TheloniousSphereMonk: Well, according to my quick Google research, scientists make between $60,000 to $150,000 a year, with $100,000 being the average.

The only ones making significantly more are those who are also entrepreneurs with their own business enterprises or the aforementioned celebrities, both of which are few and far between.

And let's face it, your typical church minister isn't getting rich either, save again those with some sorta business deal or celebrity status.

This notion that either group does what they do to get rich is simply wrong.

Blackshoes: Now that's more like it Looking at an issue from all points of view Good for you Monk . Miracles never cease

KeithJ: monk i was not talking of typical preachers

KeithJ: and scientist make that from being educated for their work ,, i guess then preachers are Miracle workers right ? I think not they do not make advances in diseases or things black shoes so pray away your brain tumor .

Blackshoes: So unbelievably typical ^^^

KeithJ: My self I had a electronics degree by age of 17 also built my own radio telescope out of the old 20 ft C band sat dish ,,,now C band was a lower frequency sat system before now they use a higher gigahertz freq so that is why they are a smaller dish now ,,but with 20 20 ft old dish you can use it at higher freq's but with a dish more surface on a parabolic shape you have higher gain and the reason you need no high gain for sat TV is that the LNA is of a better type now,,, so with my radio telescope I could see approximately 6 billion light years distance
and my LNA was of my construction and BS ( I. E. blackshoes ) I myself know more of science than your brain fart ,,,also i am an Extra class level licensed by the FCC on Ham radio and we have digital radio comms we developed our selves and also fast scan TV systems over air besides CW ( carrier wave ) morse code and voice ,,,and I bet you can't read 50 words per minute CW like I can ,,,i build and fix my own electronics ,,why this and 3 other computers I found in disrepair and many nice monitors and repaired them myself and even at the level of how and what electronic components I know what materials are used to make components of such ,,I also have besides modern radios for shortwave use I have tube type just in case of a big solar sun storm would hit like in 1850 in which telegraph stations caught fire and burt because of the long lines for them picked up so much magnetic pulses that caused them to burn down and in 1958 was a big one too BUT we had no modern solid state things then so it didn't hurt much and new cars have too much vulnerable un necessary electronic crap in them now and there will be millions of dead vehicles if it happens again in magnitude and cell phones and such will not work either but with my home brew generator and vintage tube radios I will still be able to communicate
world wide ,,,so don't assume I have NO knowledge of science as I know also chemistry science too besides electronics and astronomy and common sense of knowledge of what Trumptard had done years ago too for my memory of it and I watched him back then too ...
I never forgotten what he was like and had done back then even with the mafia family Genovese . Have you any Degrees like I have ?

Blackshoes: I'm sure this will fall upon deaf ears. How nor why you found fault with a simple compliment that I gave to Monks post is beyond me

You and Trump may both have your egos to keep you company
Neither he nor you' are omniscient.


It's unfortunate that those that believe, they have all the knowledge, often never understand how little they really know.

“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

Mark Twain



“He knows nothing; and he thinks he knows everything. That points clearly to a political career.”

George Bernard Shaw


Proverbs 26:4

4 Answer, not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

kittybobo34: Keith,, very impressed with your credentials. Nice to have someone onboard that knows what he is talking about.

Blackshoes:

"Longest Evolution Experiment Dead-End

The industry’s longest-running research experiment reached a milestone in October studying the evolution of more than 68,000 generations. Biologist Richard Lenski started the now legendary experiment in his laboratory early in 1988 with just 12 flasks seeded with genetically identical bacteria known as Escherichia coli (E. coli). The bacteria have since been growing in a carefully measured solution of glucose, a type of sugar – “food” for bacteria.

Each flask contained just a sparse amount of glucose to create a stressful environment along with a high concentration of citrate, a molecular close cousin of glucose, pushing the bacteria to evolve. Every day, since 1988, Lenski’s laboratory team has transferred a small sample into new 50 mL Erlenmeyer flasks. Although wanting to quit this laborious experiment many times, Lenski has continued this process non-stop for over 30 years – now recognized as the industry’s longest evolution experiment dead-end.


Model
Bacteria have been extremely important in studying evolution. The University of Colorado’s website entitled Bacteria as a Model System asserts that bacteria have “been one of the great vindications of the theory of evolution.”

Enduring the permeating annoyance of E. coli’s infamous reeking putrid smell, Richard Lenski’s (right) lab at Michigan State University embraced a design for what has become the most widely recognized experiment to test the star of the evolution industry. Bacteria offer scientists a fast-forward glimpse of evolution.

Reproductive rates, often measured in doubling-times, allow scientists to track and trend changes over short periods of time. The higher the doubling-time, the greater the number of generations available to study over the same time. In bacteria, while the doubling-times average 20 minutes, in humans the doubling-time requires 20 years. Writing for Science Alert, Fiona MacDonald puts the comparison between bacteria and human evolution into context –

“Scientists have spent the past 30 years carefully tracking evolution across more than 68,000 generations of E. coli bacteria – the equivalent of more than 1 million years of human evolution.”

Freezer
As important as doubling-times are in studying evolution, the key for Lenski that escalating his project from observation to a revolutionary experiment started with the laboratory freezer. The freezer holds the registry of each flask’s common ancestor – Darwin’s key to evolution.

Every 75 days, equivalent to approximately 500 generations, Lenski’s lab team systematically transfers 1% of the E. coli from each of the 12 flasks into the freezer for storage at -112 degrees Fahrenheit – high-tech fossilization. From these frozen ancestors, the team can trace the molecular changes overtime to detail E. coli’s mechanisms of evolution.

Fast-Forward
Bacteria offers scientists a fast-forward way to study evolution. What happens to bacteria with modern molecular technology can be observed and measured – feats not possible even a decade ago. Of critical importance, the experiment can be repeated. Repeatability is essential for validating a theory to be a scientific fact.

A scientific theory, to be valid, must accurately predict what is going to happen 100% of the time; like Isaac Newton’s falling apple theory—gravity. Lenski’s study model perfectly offers scientists this opportunity. Marlene Cimons writing for the National Science Foundation in the article “E. coli Offers Insight to Evolution,” explains –

“The experiment was designed to ask about the repeatability of evolution.”

Currently, what plagues the validity of current evolution theories centers on reconciling the dynamic between some unknown unguided random process and the guarantee of a repeatable outcome. If the recording tape of evolution could be re-run again, what happened before must happen again. As Lenski explains in an interview with Cimons,

“If we look at the tension between the randomness of mutation and the predictability of natural selection, how does evolution play out when you put the two together… That’s really what this long-term experiment has been all about.”

In recognition of Lenski’s work, the National Center for Science Education’s (NCSE) awarded the 2017 Friend of Darwin Award to Lenski for his E. coli Long-Term Experimental Evolution Project. NCSE’s executive director Ann Reid said –

“It would be hard to think of anybody who has done as much to show that evolution is among the experimental sciences than Rich Lenski”

Keep Getting Bigger
Lenski’s team observed a rapid increase in E. coli cell size in all 12 flasks starting from the beginning in 1988 – and they keep getting bigger by the year. Since a consistent increase in size was observed in all flasks, this supports a significant scientific requirement – repeatability: not an insignificant finding.

Not only did the cell size get bigger, the increase in cell size developed despite living in a sparse glucose (left) environment. The observed growth indicates an increase in fitness overtime as Charles Darwin had predicted. In an interview with his publisher W.W. Norton & Company, Lenski explains –

“One result is that the average fitness in each population increases over time… the same process that Darwin discovered.”

From his Down House library, Darwin wrote out his fitness argument in The Origin of Species –

“This tendency… to go on increasing in size… has prevailed throughout all time… [and] is utterly inexplicable on the theory of creation. As natural selection acts solely by accumulating slight, successive, favourable variations.”

With his observations verified, Lenski legitimately argued for the repeatable nature of evolution in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences –

“Evolution may thus be broadly repeatable.”

Today’s populations grow about 80% faster than the original lines in all flasks, a phenomena Lenski calls “a beautiful example of adaptation by natural selection.”

Something New
Getting bigger is the smaller part of Lenski’s findings. In 2008, around 16 years into the experiment and near generation 30,000, something new happened in flask #9. The solution became consistently cloudier and darker than the other flasks.

For Lenski the bacteria seemed to have “evolved the capacity to exploit citrate (right)” – the only other energy source in the solution. At the time, what happened was a mystery. The step to develop a new metabolic process involves a level of complexity light-years more advanced than simply getting bigger. Using citrate was a game changer.

The news ignited the evolution industry: finally, at last evolution had the ever-elusive observable, measurable and repeatable scientific evidence. Clues to what happened, however, was not to be known until 2012.

How citrate could be used a as an energy source was a molecular mystery since E. coli can only can use citrate while in the absence of oxygen. In fact, E. coli growing on citrate in an anoxic environment – no oxygen – is one of its uniquely identifying characteristics. Microbiologists use citrate in non-oxygen environments to differentiate E. coli from other bacteria.

Finally in 2012, following the wake of new molecular technologies, geneticist Zachary Blount (left – swinging) finally pen-pointed the genetic mystery in the paper “Genomic analysis of a key innovation in an experimental Escherichia coli population,” published in Britain’s prestigious Nature journal.

Blount discovered E. coli’s key innovation – a genetic duplication. The sequences of DNA nucleotides in the region of the cit gene duplicated and the sequences were rearranged. With this new duplicated DNA section, the newly arranged promoter gene gained control over the blocking gene to allowing the use citrate for energy – even in the presence of oxygen.

Harvard Gazette staff writer, Alvin Powell, jumped to speculate in 2014 “that one of the 12 bacterial lines he has maintained has developed into what he believes is a new species.” In the words of Lenski: “I would argue that citrate users are — or are becoming — a new species” – vindicating Darwin’s origin of species argument, it seemed.

Dead-End
Once touted as scientific evidence to support evolution, Lenski’s experiment has now reached a dead end. The persistent increase in the rate of E. coli cell size observed early in the study has not continued. Reporting in The Scientist, science writer Abby Olena notes Lenski’s problem –

“Between 40,000 and 50,000 generations, there was [only] a 3 percent increase in mean fitness.”

Along with the dead end of the cell size problem, only flask #9 has developed the ability to use citrate in Lenski’s laboratory since 2008; none of the other 11 flasks have developed the same mutation drawing into question the repeatability of evolution.

The repeatability issue, however, was resolved by Dustin Van Hofwegen (right) at the University of Idaho. Hofwegen observed the development of E. coli citrate-using mutants in as few as 12 generations.

The study, entitled “Rapid Evolution of Citrate Utilization by Escherichia coli,” was published in the Journal of Bacteriology in 2016. According to Hofwegen, Lenski’s long-term evolution experiment (LTEE) has reached an experimental dead end –

“Here we show why it probably was not a speciation event… We conclude that the rarity of the LTEE mutant was an artifact of the experimental conditions and not a unique evolutionary event. No new genetic information (novel gene function) evolved.”

Flask #9 was Lenski’s best shot for uncovering evidence for an evolutionary event amongst the estimated hundreds of millions of mutations over the past 30 years – translating to more than a million years of human evolution (sic). But, the holy grail of evolution, speciation, never happened.

Laboratory experiments repeatedly demonstrate how bacteria, while having an incalculable capacity for change, continue as from the beginning. Bacteria have not “been one of the great vindications of the theory of evolution,” as touted by the University of Colorado.

By starting with E. coli and ending with E. coli, Lenski’s laboratory project now has the distinction as the industry’s longest evolution experiment dead-end.

Genesis
Despite a flood of challenges since the publication of The Origin of Species, the scientific evidence found in nature is increasingly best explainable by the Genesis record written by Moses.

Louis Pasteur , a French chemist and microbiologist who was one of the most important founders of medical microbiology, was driven to today’s increasingly popular conclusion

“Science brings one nearer to God.”

Biological evolution exists only as a philosophy, not a science."


by Richard William Nelson | Jan 26, 2018

kittybobo34: Minor point to that long document above.. Bacteria do not reproduce with sexual reproduction, they use asexual,, so each generation is exactly the same as the previous one. Evolution is mostly about sexual reproduction that pushes the envelope of constant change to fit the environment.. In earths past bacteria ruled the planet for near 2 billion years before multi cell and sexual reproduction finally evolved. Some lab experiment for 30 years can hardly match a planet wide 2 billion year experiment... Never the less From that point of sexual reproduction, less than 500 million years to all the variety of life today.

KeithJ: EXACTLY kitty ,,,, and again it shows who doesn't know science well as of to fit it to the correct
area of subject 'tudal indifference .

Blackshoes: The same experiment was conducted with fruit flies with the same disappointing result, no indication of transspecies development whatsoever', " and again it shows who doesn't know science well as of to fit it to the correct."

KeithJ: well when they make a remake of the moive The Fly I'll put in a word for you maybe you can get the lead role . ,,,,the Earth IS billions of years old and Man came from sub species over time of development not some fairy tale that says the earth is only 7 thousand years that some preacher said it was as the day with the lord is like a thousand years bull crap when man had no idea of science and left out books of the bible to and also use it as a control vice just like the roman catholic church and others who used it like Jim Jones whom I actually seen in Indianapolis Indiana while walking past his nut church from the side walk as a kid ,, most of you so called christians never knew he started there unless you use google as for you hardly know things of such and science from a first hand point like I do .

Blackshoes: The Earth is or isn't billions of years old? We just don't know. It may be, I see mountains of evidence that it is very old and only a spare amount of evidence that it's not ?

Yet no matter how old or young the earth maybe doesn't change the facts that the evidence doesn't point to life being here for billions of years without huge assumption added.

Even if Life has been here it in no way verify the assumptions and unscientific opinion that the fairytale of evolution is realistic. Macroevolution and abiogenesis has no known genetic support whatsoever. Abiogenesis is beyond impossible

kittybobo34: Blackshoes "The same experiment was conducted with fruit flies with the same disappointing result, no indication of transspecies development whatsoever" ------ That is no longer true.
They did eventually get a new species of fruit fly

Blackshoes: Then show the site? I'm sure it's more wishful thinking from evolutionist that want to tickle your ears?

ghostgeek: Look and you shall find.

In what has been described as the "perfect experiment," evolutionary biologists at the University of Chicago replaced a single gene in fruit flies and discovered a mechanism by which two different "races" begin to become different species, with one group adapted to life in the tropics and the other suited to cooler climates. The tropical group was more tolerant of starvation but less tolerant of cold. The temperate group was less able to resist starvation but better adapted to cool weather.

The altered gene also changed the flies' pheromones, chemical signals that influence mating behavior. As a result, the researchers show in the Dec. 5 issue of Science, the two groups of flies are not only fit for different environments but may also be on their way to sexual isolation, a crucial divide in the emergence of a new species.

"This study directly connects genetics with evolution," said Chung-I Wu, PhD, professor and chairman of ecology and evolution at the University of Chicago and director of the study. "For the first time, we were able to demonstrate the vast importance in an evolutionary context of a small genetic change that has already occurred in nature."

[ https://www.uchicagomedicine.org/forefront/news/changing-one-gene-launches-new-fly-species ]

Blackshoes: Their still fruit flies! Adaptational change is and has always been part of microevolution!
You have never shown any form of macroevolution whatsoever.
OMG will you evolutionists ever understand what is required to verify the science?

MJ59: Ok sparky!

ghostgeek: It's always the same message from those crusty Creationists, but there's something strange about all the whining they do. Do they care that scientists still don't fully understand such commonplace phenomena as lightning and clouds? Nope, not in the least. It's only when the subject turns to evolution that they demand that science should know all the answers. Well, sorry boys but science doesn't have all the answers, so it's a case of waiting around for those bug-eyed scientists to pull their finger out and create a green and pink monster in a test tube from washing up liquid.