Something from Nothing, our Universe? (Page 10)

fieldofforce: @Pokerman
Something from Nothing, Our Universe?

There is a principle in mathematics: There are no absolutes. And, the exception proves the rule.
Albert Einstein used this principle in his theory of relativity to disprove Isaac Newton's theory.
Newton considered time was an absolute. The same time everywhere in the universe. Einstein proved that time is relative. It slows down as you reach the speed of light.

The absolute void (no space, no time) cannot exist, because of the principle. And, one exception is our universe.

fieldofforce: What does "ohojk" mean?

fieldofforce: You can express your opinion about my post regarding absolutes freely.

XFixYourBrainX: Bump

MJ59: *burp*

zeffur: re: "PokerMan: What Im saying is that from what Quantum Mechanics and Mathematics states that something can not come from nothing! 0 does not equal 1 haha, the number 1 is the universe we live in how did it come to be?"

'Nothing' is just a mental concept that is the opposite of 'something' like '1' is just a mental concept that is the opposite of '0'.

Assume for a moment that all of our mental concepts about the universe & the big bang theory are wrong or they do not exist.

Now lets start over & consider what we 'actually know' vs what we speculate or postulate 'may' be true.

We find ourselves in an existence with physical things with many properties that we eventually define & share with each other as a common framework for understanding what actually is & how to communicate that knowledge with others.

Among that data is the observation that the universe is expanding, but, we do not know the cause of the expansion, so we find ourselves forced with the reality that we must imagine what the cause/s might be (e.g.:
1. is some external universal force evenly pulling the fabric of our universe space apart like taffy as the matter & energy of our universe goes along for the ride--powerless to stop it?
2. is some unknown internal force (such as anti-gravity or something like anti-gravity) repelling the matter & energy of our universe outwards?

We do not know & we don't seem to have any way of figuring that out without speculating--but, we do know that such an expansion is accelerating as time advances.

Then someone else reasons--well, if our universe is expanding then it seems reasonable that it must have originated from a central point or location at some time in the past--so, we speculate & postulate about that notion for decades only to realize that we have more assumptions than we have actual facts to support our assumptions & the net result isn't more knowledge, but instead greater division amongst people about what they choose to believe may have happened in the beginning. Those that hate the notion of a higher power choose to believe the universe always existed & don't know the causation for the bang (which incidently, they really don't 'know' happened for certain or what caused it to happen if it actually happened) & those that tend to believe in a higher power choose to believe God caused the universe to begin--yet, neither of them can prove what they choose to believe may be the truth.

Nothing is a concept just as something is a concept. Sometimes nothing simply means that we lack the ability to see what is in a container because the things within the container are invisible to our natural senses--but, we know by using other tools to aid our perception that air, dust, germs/other micro-organism, atoms, subatomic particles, etc exist. The same might be said of other somethings in the universe that we do not have the tools to detect or understand, yet (hopefully).

In the end, we shouldn't go about deluding & dividing ourselves about what we 'believe' may be true---we should be united & sharing verified knowledge & keeping it distinctly separate from our beliefs, as we continue to search for what is actually & verifiably true.

zeffur: re: "fieldofforce: @Pokerman Something from Nothing, Our Universe?
There is a principle in mathematics: There are no absolutes. And, the exception proves the rule. Albert Einstein used this principle in his theory of relativity to disprove Isaac Newton's theory. Newton considered time was an absolute. The same time everywhere in the universe. Einstein proved that time is relative. It slows down as you reach the speed of light. The absolute void (no space, no time) cannot exist, because of the principle. And, one exception is our universe."

I think Newton is right & Einstein is wrong because:
Einstein inextricably entangles space & time as a function when in reality space & time are very different things.

Consider this info hypothetically:
1. 2 minutes before the dense singularity of our universe bangs, nothing happens for 1:59 (in that 'time' space & time supposedly do not exist in our universe since our universe does not yet exist).

2. During the next 1 second a shuddering begins just before the big bang event occurs.

As you can see above (hypothetically) events still occurred--even without space created in our universe. That to me is what I consider to be universal time & that is what I think Newton believed. It is independent of space.

Once mankind linked a swinging pendulum (distance moved in space) to measure time, we created a function that adversely confuses what the essence of time truly is--which is what I think Einstein did. My guess is that some unaccounted for gravitational variation on space or some error in his constants is a factor in why Einstein's theory results in a time variation.