NASA says it Will colonize the Moon by 2024 (Page 24)

getthederr: it is my disgusting large ego and god given arrogance....that made me what I am today...censored online by google...and twitter ...haha.

kittybobo34: The biggest problem with the American space program is that the Government is always in debt. Hard to justify spending on space with borrowed money. Until space can pay for itself in some way, the US is going no where. Perhaps one of the private programs can do something.
The other issue is technology, we aren't quite at that point where we can do real building in space safely.

getthederr: bobo....without giving any personal info are you actually involved with the govt funds committees for space programs or connected to NASA some how... ?

longpigchef: It is hard to justify that much spending on something as intangible, and questionably beneficial as space exploration.

briansmythe: Yeah I cant help agreeing , Put the exploring on hold for awhile, The Chinese Europeans can put up Satalights , Days are over trying to be No 1,at everything

kittybobo34: getthederr,, The closest I got to working for NASA was working for GE on the SNAP reactor. It was a small nuclear reactor made out of its own fuel to save weight, but very powerful. It also has the capability to power a VASMR space drive.

kittybobo34: brandy,, you know we spend more on our pets than we do in space, just to show how little we value, actual science and engineering.

getthederr: thx bobo….

getthederr: the reason people spend more on pets than going into space is when you release your pet it is not being sucked into the vacuum of space or falling 33 miles to the ground.... grins .

longpigchef: I'm not saying that's my views at all, but I believe the majority doesn't think there's anything beneficial to be obtained in our cosmos

Corwin: Anybody who thinks that the space program is a waste of money just hasn't been paying attention. This modern world we live in was shaped by the ambitious technologies and technological by-products of that very program.

Miniaturized computers, satellite technology and global communication and a better understanding of our fragile planet when studied from space, textiles, materials and manufacturing processes that didn't formerly exist... there's probably a hundred things that have improved our lives that the space program made possible that we take for granted each and every day.

And you can't even put a price-tag on how we've expanded our knowledge of the universe around us... is knowledge also a pointless pursuit? If mankind's sole purpose is merely to keep our bellies full and reproduce, then we may as well be rats running on a treadmill...

... or perhaps the cockroaches are actually our betters - they are far better at feeding themselves and reproducing, and they've been doing it for over 300 million years, without all those silly pointless pursuits like Fine Art or Philosophy, or indulging in pointless pursuits like Music or Cinema or Literature or advancing their knowledge.

Maybe we should burn down the Louvre and all that pointless art, doze it to the ground, and plant more corn on that plot of land. Hell, let's get rid of any and all pointless human pursuits... remove Art from our education systems, or for that matter the only things schools should be necessary for is to learn how to farm and grow more food for our increasing numbers. And those schools certainly shouldn't have "playgrounds" for the children - a waste of valuable resources that serve no purpose. And while we're at it, also abolish the toy industry - why indulge or nourish the minds of our youth when all they need to know how to do is become farmers and make babies?

Oh hell... when you get to the crux of the matter, the stupidest thing our ancient ancestors ever did was to climb down from the trees and begin evolving towards something "human-like". Chimpanzees don't have to grow food, or go to school, or get a job, or pay taxes... they certainly don't bother themselves with silly things like wasting effort learning what those points of light in the night sky are all about, or wonder why the Sun rises each morning. All they need to do is swing from the trees and eat the food that is found within reach.

Let's be more like the cockroach.. let's be "proper" life forms... all that's required to meet that criteria is to feed, excrete, and make copies of ourselves. Oh hell.... forget the cockroach... bacterium had that act perfected 3.8 billion years ago, and I bet they were never burdened with worries or depression or a thirsty curiosity about the world around them, or a desire to be entertained with recreational pursuits. Intelligent thought itself is pointless if you really think about it (which we wouldn't be able to do without being capable of intelligent thought). Good for us that we can ponder the pointlessness of our own human existence.
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Okay... that above composition is obviously dripping with sarcasm... and I like to think that we ARE better than bacterium, or cockroaches, or chimpanzees... but as far as "long-term survival" goes, the verdict still isn't out on that. The cockroaches watched the 150 million year reign of the Dinosaurs come and go, and they still remained... and the cockroaches will watch the present reign of the Mammals come and go... UNLESS the Mammals can learn to survive off-world.

So the space program is a waste of "money"... alright then... let's doom ourselves to inevitable extinction if we can save a few bucks.
What is spent on the space program costs each of us a fraction of what we spend on a pair of fashionable shoes each year... but unlike the space program, fashion is important.
(Whoops... more sarcasm... sorry, I can't seem to help it)

Corwin: On another note:

Brandy said, " I believe the majority doesn't think there's anything beneficial to be obtained in our cosmos ".

I do hope he's wrong about that... if he's right, then the majority has a deplorable lack of vision.
What is there to be obtained in our cosmos? -- The COSMOS ITSELF.

Carl Sagan referred to our Earth as a "speck of dust suspended in a Sun-beam"... and thanks to the space program we have SEEN it in precisely that perspective... as the Voyager probe left our solar-system it looked back and took a snap-shot... and Earth was just that - a tiny speck in comparison to this enormous universe that surrounds us.

Once mankind perceived this planet as the ENTIRE universe that everything else revolved around... now we understand that this speck we live on is a "prison"... the universe awaits us.
Perhaps that is even our "purpose", not only our destiny. Is that a "grandiose" vision? Certainly. But they say, "Think big or go home."
I can envision the Earth as an "egg"... an egg that has been evolving to hatch "us"... a species capable of bringing life to the stars.

And if that is in fact the case, then the well-being of this planet, and even the well-being of an individual human, is insignificant compared to our "grander purpose"... I say let's TRASH this place if it can get us off this planet... the way an unhatched bird consumes the "yolk" of that egg it resides in, only to smash it to pieces and fly free once that resource has been depleted.

The Dinosaurs couldn't do it, and they're gone now... life tried again and came up with "us".
Perhaps this is our "destiny", and from the looks off it there isn't time left here on this planet for Earth to try again from scratch if WE go extinct... and from that perspective, this "space program" is THE most important endeavor the Human Race has ever embarked upon.

Corwin: Far more important than a fashionable pair of shoes.

Another thought... think of the TRILLIONS of dollars we spend on warfare, and fighting amongst ourselves... if we could all get on the "same page" and work together, just imagine what we could accomplish.
We could have had Hilton Hotels and Disneyland on Mars by now for all the money spent bickering with each other.

But then... I will be the first to admit that that is a rather "idealist" notion, and not very realistic. It was the Cold War between USA and USSR that put the first man on the Moon. The very technologies that made it possible were the ones we were developing to exterminate each other.
But... at least... the Saturn V rocket was NOT built to launch warheads, but served but one purpose... to put a man on the Moon... and we left a bronze plaque there on the Moon's surface when Apollo 11 made that historic journey, that stated ---
"We came in peace for all of Mankind".
That gives me hope.

Was it a contradictory statement? ... Perhaps... but that Cold War brought about what is arguably considered the greatest achievement in the history of Mankind. When Neil Armstrong set foot on our Moon, the whole world was watching, and we all felt "united"... it wasn't "a" man setting foot on the Moon; it wasn't just an "American" setting foot on our Moon... it was "us" that took that step. Even the Russians had tears in their eyes, not because they "lost" the space-race, but because "WE" finally did it. --- Mankind did it.

A profound moment in Human history... from that day on, we lived in a world where "Man has set foot on the Moon".
And we haven't blown ourselves up in the meantime... so that's at least a reason I remain optimistic about our future survival.

kittybobo34: I think there is a large population of people that see our destiny out in space, Probably mostly Star Trek fans. Once we are out there, we won't need a planet anymore. We can generate simulated gravity by spinning the habitat, we would have access to nearly unlimited energy, and resources. Eventually we could turn Earth into a national park.

Corwin: STAR TREK!

"To boldly go"

**cues Star Trek theme song**

kittybobo34: That show was a great vision of what we could be if we wanted.

Corwin: Yep... so many of the visions that our great Science Fiction writers conceived of have become reality.

Jules Verne envisioned "submarine boats" (he actually coined the term), and men journeying to the Moon... Arthur C Clarke envisioned orbiting satellites...
... Gene Roddenberry envisioned "flip-phones", and those things have already become obsolete.

Corwin: Oh... a bit off-topic... but I'm on a tangent now ...
... a few things that I think will NEVER come to be, that SF writers envision:

Teleportation -- I just can't see it. WAY to complex to take trillions of atoms of a person, rip them apart, and reassemble them perfectly. And even if you COULD do it... getting yourself disassembled atom for atom sounds rather "lethal"... whatever came out the other end might "remember" being "you"... but I think it would be a "new" entity, and "you" would be dead. Basically "killing you" and spitting out a "copy".
There'd be no way to prove it one way or the other though.

Space Elevator -- That was Arthur Clarke's brain-child... this seems preposterous to me. Whether a 36,000 km high sky-scraper, or a cable as thin as your arm capable of withstanding millions of kgs of tension, and surviving the millions of volts of flux conducted from those differing altitudes (it would have to be a material of almost infinite tensile strength AND be a superconductor) ... I can't see it. I can imagine that we'd find a way to "cheat gravity" or develop a better propulsion method before a textile like THAT would be developed.

Faster than light travel -- Call me "old-fashioned", but I fear that that Relativistic Speed Barrier that Einstein calculated is real. But, of the three technologies I just mentioned, this is one I hope I'm wrong about. We once thought the Sound-Barrier to be unbreakable, so who knows.

kittybobo34: Well we have the VASMR drive. so we can get close to speed of light. I have a theory that as you approach the speed, the mass increases by way of shrinking space within the traveling object. Once that happens you are literally in another dimension. possibly a warp bubble. So still holding out hope for faster than light travel.

kittybobo34: Engineering wise I think the space elevator is possible. Carbon fiber tubing would have the strength, but it would have to be thicker than an arm I think.

Corwin: Yeah, I remain hopeful that there will be "loopholes" in Physics that will enable us to find "short-cuts" through Space/Time... hopeful, yet doubtful.

But I've done the math regarding that "cable" thing... it WON'T be able to be any thicker than your arm... it requires a "miracle" textile that will be strong enough, AND light enough. For a 36,000 km long cable, if you need to make it thicker, then it would have to be even stronger to support even its own weight... as the thickness increases, you need more tensile strength, if this strength has to be attained by further thickening the cable it gets heavier and you need more strength, and you have a "run-away" calculation that approaches infinity. You'd need a textile stronger than steel and lighter than styrofoam. I can't see it.

Same goes for the other side of that coin - a 36,000 km tall skyscraper... instead of tension, you're dealing with compression, and the sheer weight of the whole thing to be strong enough to support even its own weight.
Again, without a material stronger than steel and lighter than styrofoam, the base of it would need to be larger than Texas, and the Earth's crust would not be able to support it. It would sink into the mantle before it was half finished.

Corwin: Of course there's the idea of building the 36,000 km high skyscraper from the "top down"... occupying an orbit that balances out the underlying weight and remaining stationary over one spot until the finished construction meets the ground...
... and again... we're talking "tension" again... and a "miracle" textile is involved.

Arthur C Clarke was a clever guy... but I don't think he really thought this through when he suggested it.

Sci-Fi has a lot of fun with merely thinking up impossible technologies to come up with neat-o plot devices, and anything is possible... but the harsh reality is that we live in a universe in which impossible things cannot be done.
Our job is to figure out where that line is drawn between the possible and the impossible.

Nicola Tesla destroyed his career by insisting that he could one-day transmit electricity "wireless" to any spot on the planet. He gave us AC current which does a nice job of transmitting electricity over long distance with high-tension wires... but he destroyed himself chasing after that pipe-dream of impossible wireless electrical transmission. He didn't even have calculations as to how it was possible, just believed that there must be a way to do it.

When somebody comes up with that "miracle" textile stronger than steel and lighter than styrofoam, I will consider the possibility of a space-elevator... but not until then.

getthederr: thx brandy, your comments made me have to read a book here of corwin grins

getthederr: Arthur c. Clarke wrote childhoods end. sci fi book. sci fi channel did a movie of it, few yrs ago, and it is rarely ever seen.

kittybobo34: I loved that book, really made you think, didnt know they made a movie of it