Do you think the consipracy nuts will shut up now? (Page 8)
akpr361: I hope the conspiracy people keep talking , that is the only way we can determine the truth..
Take care everyone...
caucasboy24: Do you really think the world works with no conspiracies? Open up your eyes, boy. This wotld is not about the stupid conspiracies that people find out bur it's not about nice carebears. Read a bit about geopolitics...
Corwin: No... read the original post on this forum (why does nobody ever do that? )
It's about people who think the Moon landings were a hoax, even though all the Apollo landing sites and human activity (footprints, descent stages, discarded Saturn B booster stage impact sites, scientific equipment, American flags ) can be easily seen and photographed from Earth-based telescopes.
toyman8145: Charlie Duke LMP on Apollo 16 once said 'we went to the moon 9 times, why would we fly to the moon 9 times if we were gonna fake it'
macdude80: I watched a documentary about the Voyager mission that sent a couple probes swinging by the outer planets...epic mission that spanned years waiting for the probes to reach a planet. They would then gather all the data they could and hope their cameras were working.
iqoverlord: I personally believe we sent people to the moon, but I also think we faked the video and pictures. The specks on the cameras and video equipment show a lacked of sufficient shielding to protect against cosmic radiation. As a result the real pictures and video would have been unusable. After all we sent them up there in a light weight low pressure aluminum can.
Hatman20: ... I seriously get so fucking tired of having to explain the difference between alpha, beta, gamma, xray, and ultraviolet radiation, to dumbfucks who only research the science behind space flight JUST ENOUGH just to confirm their biased preconceived notion that something was faked.
1.) Most of the radiation emitted from the sun is charged alpha and beta radiation that is easily stopped by thin metal. This is the kind of radiation that is also stopped by the earth's electromagnetic field and gets trapped in the van allen belts.
2.) More dangerous Xray radiation is photons that only really get released in significant doses when the sun has a solar storm. fortunately, these occur months apart and no solar storm occurred during any of the lunar missions. This kind of radiation is not charged, is not affected by the earth's electromagnetic field, and is not trapped in the van allen belts. A lot of it gets blocked by Earth's atmosphere, but not all of it. Even had a solar storm occured during a moon landing, the spacecraft would've provided at least some shielding, though the astronauts would've had increased risk of cancer afterwards.
3.) Gamma rays, the highest energy photons possible, which are actually dangerous radiation capable of penetrating pretty deep into most kinds of materials and causing serious health and electronic damage, isn't emitted AT ALL by the sun. This type of radiation is what is actually responsible for "cosmic rays"... You should really do some research on the distinction between generic radiation and cosmic rays, and where cosmic rays come from. Cosmic rays are gamma radiation that makes it to earth from energetic events far away, elsewhere in the universe. Cosmic rays are the result of supernovae, active galactic nuclei, etc... Basically, stuff really fucking far away. Solar radiation and cosmic radiation are not the same thing.
And here is the kicker... These events are so far away, that very little gamma radiation actually reaches earth from them. It's detectable, and observable, but IT IS FAR FROM HARMFUL LEVELS. FURTHERMORE, much like xrays, gamma rays are uncharged, not affected at all by earth's electromagnetic field, aren't trapped in the van allen belts, and most importantly, are so high energy and penetrative, that the atmosphere stops almost none of it... You, sitting at home at your desk, are exposed to almost as much gamma ray radiation as you would be on the surface of the moon... Yet the computer you type on (unfortunately), continues to operate without interruption.
4.) iqoverlord, just to hammer home the point once and for all that not doing a damn bit of research on the subject, and then going on the internet to state what you believe on a subject you have zero formal expertise in without supporting evidence is one of the fastest ways to embarrass yourself... here, fast forward to 2:55:
This video is from a helicopter flying over the Chernobyl nuclear plant a few hours after one their cores blew up and started melting down. It was there to assess the damage, as nobody was sure quite how bad it was... Until this video was retrieved.
In this video, the helicopter flies directly over the hole in the roof caused by the explosion. In it, they, with the video camera, DIRECTLY OBSERVED glowing molten radioactive graphite. These puddles are what used to be the rods used to control the power output of the reactor. They mixed with reactor fuel, and the molten mass started borrowing its way through the floor of the reactor. The helicopter flew through a radioactive gas cloud.
To give you some idea of just how much radiation this camera was receiving at the time, Anatoly Grishchenko was one of a few helicopter pilots during the containment process. His job was to dump concrete and sand into that open hole... He died 4 years later of leukemia thanks to the radiation exposure.
... And yet this camera, as well as all other cameras at the Chernobyl event, were able to easily yield useful images and videos. Pretty much all the videos and photos are grainy because of the radiation. Some videos, you can even see the image being warped, and flashed by gamma rays hitting the sensor... Yet they still yielded videos that were more than recognizable.
In fact, there is only one incident in the entire Chernobyl incident that I can think of where a camera actually had unrecoverable data because of radiation exposure:
This is the elephant's foot. It is the single most radioactive part of the chernobyl disaster. It's an 11 ton solidified mass of corium, a mixture of uranium, zirconium, graphite, and concrete. It's what's left of the uranium core melting through the floor of the facility. To this day, it's radioactivity still leaves it above room temperature. Shortly after its formation, when liquidators were exploring the site, just 30 seconds of exposure to this thing would leave you dead within a weak, and would kill you totally within 2 minutes.
Taking pictures of it proved rather difficult. Liquidators used rolling dollys with cameras on them to take pictures around corners at corium deposits... I've heard that the black and white picture in particular had to be taken through a mirror from around the corner, as directly exposing the camera resulted in its destruction.
Nowadays, though still lethal if exposed to it for too long, it has much lower radiation. Low enough to take pictures of it directly, and even stand near it for a very short time.
This... This is what it takes to make a camera unusable... Radiation so extreme, so many thousands of times worse than found on the surface of the moon, so INSANE, that it would kill a man within 2 minutes... This... This is how far you have to go to kill a camera with radiation.
And before you go and claim some goal post moving bullshit like "oh, these are "shielded" cameras", or "oh, these images are fake too".... To the first, fuck off, you clearly don't even know what does and doesn't "shield" against radiation, given that you don't even seem to grasp what the different kinds of radiation even are. You're in no position to make that kind of call. In reality, Chernobyl was such a surprise that NONE of the equipment used really shielded against ANYTHING. They used off the shelf cameras, whatever was available in the area to record the event as it unfolded. That helicopter pilot for example, was filming BEFORE THEY EVEN REALIZED THE REACTOR HAD COMPLETELY MELTED DOWN. To the second, why fake this? Who would fake this? This is Soviet footage which the US acquired for nuclear plant safety research. It was taken purely to help the containment efforts, and for a very long time, was NEVER released to the public because of how embarrassing it was to the soviet union. It's hard to even FIND photos of these things, I wouldn't be a damn bit surprised if the Soviet Union had actively sought to destroy the footage and imagery after it had lived out it's usefulness just to hide how bad it was.
General rule of thumb: Most of the time, humans are more fragile to radiation than electronics.
So... In short, the Chernobyl disaster actively demonstrates that absolutely ludicrous amounts of radiation are required to make data unrecoverable from a camera. Radiation does cause distortions, flashes, grainy pictures, etc... But it does not make the footage and photos straight up unrecognizable, not unless you crank up the radiation levels to the point where it'd kill a person after 2 minutes of exposure.
5.) I'm not even sure why you believe the photos and videos of the moon landings were faked. Basically what you're saying is Nasa went to the effort and expense to go to the moon (the one thing conspiracy theorists claim nasa didn't do, because of how expensive it was), then claim that after 10 years of testing in space, they made the "oopsie" of bringing "unshielded cameras" along that were "unusable because of radiation", and then went to even further expense and effort to "fake it" after the fact just to have something to show the masses.
... Do you have any idea how convoluted your conspiracy is?
You know what I think?... I think you used to be a moon hoaxer, EVENTUALLY realized that there is overwhelming amounts of evidence against you, but still didn't quite want to give up on the bullshit you'd believed in for so long. No, you just think the footage was faked because in your head, SOMETHING HAS TO HAVE BEEN FAKED. IT SIMPLY HAS TO BE. And then you went online, did just enough digging to find one piece of science to misconstrue, then latch onto it as "a reason" why the footage must have been faked. It's called confirmation bias, you found something that confirmed your preconceived bias, and then stopped digging.
6.) Either drop what you're doing right now and go actually research this shit- from a neutral perspective for once- till you finally get past that dunning kruger mountain and have some sort of tangible grasp on the way radiation and cameras work... Or change your fucking username to something less ironic.
I keep waiting for this forum post to finally die off so I can stop getting notifications from cringe lords like you... But no... People like you keep resuscitating this post because you just HAVE to open your god damn mouth with your beliefs nobody asked for... And it's astonishing how many people think their BELIEFS have ANY relevancy in the SCIENCE SECTION OF THE FORUM. I stopped posting here years ago after I came to the realization that nobody can have an ACTUAL scientific debate about ANYTHING, because too many fuckers come in here who still can't even get past. I should've hit that unsub button a long time ago.
Listen, and listen closely: no scientist ever gives a single flying fuck about what you believe. What you BELIEVE doesn't matter. It literally doesn't. Do you have any idea how easy it is to be delusional? To be LITERALLY detached from reality? You can believe WHAT EVER YOU WANT... As such, beliefs are the most unscientific thing imaginable. Which is why no matter how much people like you try, TRY to argue with the analytically minded, online or in person, you will NEVER convince them of anything.
What does matter to scientists is evidence (observations, experiments, hard data, etc), and the logical application of the scientific method. These things are used SPECIFICALLY to weed out what is and isn't reality. They are used SPECIFICALLY by scientists to keep themselves in check, to keep from deluding themselves into bullshit beliefs and opinions. They use the scientific method to ground their findings in reality, and to find paradigms that are as close to the truth as possible.
This is the scientific method:
These are the basic critical thinking skills you have lacked for the past 42 years. Use this... USE IT. USE IT in literally every crossroads in your life, and it will make you a better man. Use it in every decision you make, and to answer every question you have. It will make you more analytical. It will make you think logically and scientifically. It will make you find the solution closest to the truth in every single question you have in life.
That's not to say you should trust every source you find, or that you can'd disagree with current science. There's a lot of problems that modern science has, espescially what's taught in schools (I'll give you an example, the dinosaurs more likely went extinct due to volcanic activity than the Chicxulub comet impact, yet the latter is still taught in schools)... But if you're going to disagree, you better have a damn fucking good reason to do so, one that IS BACKED UP by the scientific method.
To that end, have you:
- found any substantial evidence that we did in fact go to the moon, YET faked the footage from it
- found any substantial evidence that the radiation present in space or on the surface of the moon is enough to make a camera's footage literally unusable
- found any substantial evidence that a spacecraft with 1 inch thick aluminum (the same stuff the massive jets you fly on for vacation is made out of, incidentally) pressurized to 14 PSI is somehow incapable of adequately protecting camera equipment or astronauts
Tell you want, you want to make some bullshit conspiracy theories about nasa? Doing experiments in space ISN'T out of your reach. A typical cubesat can be launched for just 40,000 dollars, and I've heard of some particularly small ones launching for cheaper. Go stick some cameras, a solar panel, a Geiger counter, and an antennae on that bitch, and come back to me with your results.
Dumbfucks only latch on to inaccessible subjects to make conspiracy theories about, such as extraterrestrial life and the paranormal. They do so precisely BECAUSE it's so easy to make up shit about things that the common person won't experience on a daily basis. Space travel is unfortunately in a similar position... I hope as commercial spaceflight, and hopefully tourist spaceflight takes hold, that nasa conspiracy nuts will become a dying breed.
I'm out. I've had it with the "science" forum... I cannot believe how the science forum, a place where people SHOULD be debating the bleeding edge of science, are instead stuck debating about dark age shit just because this forum attracts literally the least scientific group of people I have ever met: Conspiracy theorists. If there is some sort of mistake in methodology that a scientists would beat themselves up over for making, conspiracy theorists seek out and actively commit every last one of them in defense of their "theory", because that's how contorted "science" has to get before it starts fitting their preconceived world view.
(Edited by Hatman20)
iqoverlord: You have valid point but you for got something..... Their were no weight restriction on the weight of the cameras on that helicopter and the video and transmission tech was also different.... What about transmission lag on the lunar missions.... I said we went to the moon but some of the footage was fake.... If we were to go back now it would be just as hard to prove or disprove any evidence due to modern video tech.... With digital manipulation one could easily add in a realistic alien or two( I don't mean the crossed the southern border). Why do you resort to calling names or trying to degrade others? A conspiracy is just that. Neither I or you were their so we can not say for certain what is really true... It is almost like a discussion between a hardcore christian and a atheist. Both will make valid points but neither has ever seen or not seen him and neither will ever come back after to death to tell who is right or wrong... Any true history buff know history is written by the victors. Which mean very seldom is it 100% true and sometimes it is completely false. When I read these forums my blood pressure never goes up nor do I lose any sleep. People never feel my anger and I hope never feel like I try to bully them into changing their beliefs... I hope you these words give you better understanding...
lori100: What moon? ------------wiki-----Albert Einstein is reported to have asked his fellow physicist and friend Niels Bohr, one of the founding fathers of quantum mechanics, whether he realistically believed that 'the moon does not exist if nobody is looking at it.' To this Bohr replied that however hard he (Einstein) may try, he would not be able to prove that it does, thus giving the entire riddle the status of a kind of an infallible conjecture—one that cannot be either proved or disproved. -------------------"If quantum mechanics hasn’t profoundly shocked you, you haven’t understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.” -― Niels Bohr, Essays 1932-1957 on Atomic Physics and Human Knowledge
(Edited by lori100)
iqoverlord: Well I believe a simple experiment involving a spring loaded weighted lever could prove the something effects the earths gravitational pull..... After all physical evidence that can be easily documented by many with minimal training is always the best.... Millions of people around the world witness the effect that the lunar mass has on the ocean's tidal changes. I would love to be able to go back in time and get involved in that conversation with them.
(Edited by iqoverlord)
lori100: If you look at any object with an electron microscope it doesn't appear to be solid...as one scientist said 'it has the look of a sea'....a mass of energy, nothing solid... -------------If atoms are mostly empty space, why do objects look and feel solid ...
Feb 24, 2017 - ... won't get far through our table, since the electrons in all the atoms are eager to grab some energy from the light. After a very short while they lose this gained energy, perhaps as light again. Changes in the patterns of absorbed and reflected light give reflections and colours - so we see the table as solid.
iqoverlord: I once heard a theory long ago. If you could vibrate the molecules of two objects fast enough they should be able to pass through each other..... Of course the down side is they each would leave a little of one another behind....
lori100: indeed......“Concerning matter, we have been all wrong. What we have called matter is energy, whose vibration has been so lowered as to be perceptible to the senses. There is no matter.”
― Albert Einstein ---------------------------- “If you want to find the secrets of the universe, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration.”
― Nikola Tesla
iqoverlord: You have to love Tesla..... I wonder where the world would be if not for both him and Einstein. If you took away Tesla's advancements alone we might as well be in the stone age. What I think is really scary is his lost notes. What did he dream up before his death and who has that information.
chronology: Lori dear girl, we went over this some years back. China's Moon Lander showed soil on the Moon just like Apollo saw. Japan and Indian satelites have photographed the American Landing sites on the Moon.
Is China, Japan, and India all in on this with NASA as well?