"it's not supernatural, its nature itself"

lovebirdus
lovebirdus: Can anyone provide a logical explaination for supernatural and paranormal? of course u should believe in it first.
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jjasmine
jjasmine: No, I am sure I cannot provide it. But the major thing I see here is the fact our mind is just an ordinary one - hehe - calling something supernatural in other words means something beyond our more or less simple mind
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Goran
Goran: If there was a logical explanation it wouldn't be supernatural. This same topic gets around. Are you not getting the answers you're looking for?
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Entropy
Entropy: Yes, I do in fact. The human brain is a complicated thing. We naturally look for patterns in things... when our brain thinks we see one, we keep following the pattern, even if it wasn't really there. This is superstitious behavior. Our brains can play tricks on us too, thinking you see things that aren't really there. It's proven our brains play weird tricks on us that we don't understand... try this for example:

http://www.grand-illusions.com/opticalillusions/amazing_dots/
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EyeOnX
EyeOnX: When the brain is stuck between wake and REM sleep, things out of the immediate environment can be sensed, making way for stuff like precognition, clairvoyance, telepathy, remote viewing, OBE, ghosts and other paranormal and ESP like activity, but they are very different than what most people seem to think. The very definition of ESP is wrong.

Look up Awareness Sleep Paralysis and you'll find testimonies of experiences that include shadows, aliens, ghosts, demons, devils...it's where this stuff comes from, much of which are very metaphoric.

When this happens, the brain is asleep and awake at the same time, so both visual and other sensory mechanisms are active. There's obviously more than just light dependent eyesight. How else would we be able to see our dreams? So when we're awake during REM sleep when we dream, mechanisms that sense the outer environment have access to the neural pathways that lead to dreams, which typically are visuals of what the brain has stored in memory.

Not quite yet in the journals of science, but on its way.

ESP is a real thing. I didn't believe in it either until it was way too obvious to deny. I remain critical of claims, but the skepticism flew right out the window the moment one of the visuals I had during an ASP moment came true in exact form of what was seen several years before and nearly 3,000 miles away from where it really happened. The visual was true form. It was absolutely without any metaphor. Since, there have been several others that have come true. Some are shown with metaphor, but a few have been true form. Something is allowing for this to happen. This condition gives me something tangible to work with, which is something everyone who has attempted to prove ESP have been without...a tangible source to research and test.

One of the myths of ESP is that it's this non physical type of communication when in my experiences with it, physical contact is an absolute requirement for ESP activity. There are also variables that seem to coincide with the expansions of ESP activity and all relate to health and safety.

My bottom line hypothesis to scrunch nearly three decades of research, ESP seems to be metabolic in nature, an instinctive response and a behavior automatic throughout the animal kingdom.

I have a blog at www.myspace.com/spydrworks titled "Of Cats and Ghosts". It's too long to post here. I just got the word limitation warning when I tried...LOL. I'd be interested in opinions.

Thanks.
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Goran
Goran: EyeOnX, what method did you use to record your ASP visual that came true?
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EyeOnX
EyeOnX: The only proof I know I have is a sealed envelope with descriptions of a series of visions in relation to my grandmother who was dying at the time I was going through a cluster of ASP (this happened in 1999)and a list of test requests I wanted doctors to do. The postdate is two or three weeks prior to when the autopsy report was released to the family. The autopsy report, though still quite foreign to me...I'm learning and becoming familiar with terms as I go through college (I'm a bio sciences major), but there are very specific things throughout the microscopic descriptions that fit too well to what I was seeing in the visions.

Things to consider:

I was nearly 3,000 miles away from her, so I was very prohibited from any contact with her attending physicians. Hospital policy does not allow doctors to speak about patients over the phone. The person must be present...in person. I'm in California. She was in Jersey. The only information I was given was from family updating me on her condition (if she was still seizing, if she was responding to anyone, what kinds of medications they gave her...that kind of stuff) and what the doctors were doing and giving her before she died. The autopsy itself was done a couple of months before the report's release, but the postmark is still prior to that release. My knowledge was limited to a GED and some books and documentaries on biological topics. I was a stay at home mom at the time.

It's not the kind of proof that throws something like this into the journals of science, but I'm hoping it can be one of maybe even a few more like it to at least serve as a foot in the door...an attention getter...like...hey...maybe there is something. In the mean time, I'm building on a more scientific approach and maybe I can figure a way to produce more solid proof.

There is a lab experiment that was done at Harvard and published in Jan of this year. It was designed to prove PSI, which ESP is a part of, through the use of fMRI imaging on various subjects in both experimental and control groups. It failed, however, upon reading the procedures in comparing to my own experiences, I know why it failed. Given the chance to repeat that same experiment with the modifications I think would take, I'm fairly confident it would succeed.

ESP activity seems to only occur during very specific conditions in the brain.

BTW, I haven't repeated what I did with my grandmother since she died. Communications were set through letters. I mailed a letter to her and emphasized with family that she had to touch it and I had a letter she wrote me some time before.
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Goran
Goran: I don't believe in destiny or predetermined future. So the way I explain that is if you live long enough, some of the things you dream may actually happen. If our dreams consistently came true, that would be something else. But when a dream seems to come true, at some unpredictable time in the future, singling that dream and thinking that we foresaw the actual event is superstitious IMO.
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EyeOnX
EyeOnX: "I don't believe in destiny or predetermined future."

Neither do I, but I do think ESP is an instinctive response to something very specific in the means of self preservation and shared throughout the animal kingdom and does seem very metabolic in nature.

Dreams themselves without neurological interference, such as ASP, are reflections of information already received and stored in the cortex. Sensory systems may provide a heat sensing chemical to translate heat into its light form during REM sleep to allow the experience of seeing dreams. Dreams are proof we can see without light.

What we sense when we are awake is the immediate environment around us and before it is stored in the cortex.

Put these two together and the way that can happen is when the brain is stuck between wakefulness and REM sleep, hence ASP. But the thoughts go beyond REM sleep. States of suspended animation, such as cataplexy, catalepsy, hibernation and coma are very interesting and ASP does have a relation with at least one of them (cataplexy). Cataplexy is associated with narcolepsy in people and with feigning death in other animals. This is the genetic origin of my ASP through my grandmother. Every one of her descendents have experiences of ASP including the youngest who's my son.

IMO, a foreseen event requires a memory of a past. With precognitive visions during ASP, I stay focused more on the ones that are seen in true form. At least the true form visions have a definite resource of the brain being pre-exposed to something of the vision. Visions are very specific and seem to emphasize definite features in very specific relations and those relations seem to be that of health and safety. As if the brain is sensing something as a danger to itself and certain medical conditions seem to spur on similar sleep disturbances as ASP. It's also as if ESP is a by product of specific chemical reactions the brain senses as a threat when physical means of self defense are compromised, such as in ASP due to the paralysis.

One of the advantages is the ASP, because the ASP produces these types of peculiar visions each and every time and this has been going on for 27 years for me and others who experience this also gets weird and peculiar visions too. That's pretty consistent and gives a tangible constant to work with. There is something there credible to being real ESP. It's just a matter of showing this. Just because it's yet been proven, is it really logical for it to follow that it doesn't exist?

BTW...visions are very specific. People who are way too general in their descriptions I'd also be questionable of. Though my skepticism is gone, I remain critical of claims.
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RocktheFlaminCowboy
RocktheFlaminCowboy: Here is a real strange explanation or should I say more correctly an opinion but not a qualified one. If many of these sightings whether alien or spiritual are actually another world that exists while our world exists. If you increase the speed of atoms enough such as water to steam, why can't somehow what we think to be a higher form of life, already have discovered how to do this. A solid form already existing in a gas like form. When the atoms are slowed from perhaps a malfunction we get sightings explaining spirits, aliens and even god or religious characters. We could possibly be living in a very normal world but they aren't and as usual we jump to unbelievable conclusions creating industries out of them for the sake of greed.
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yazmeen
yazmeen: jinn
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PerpetualDreamer
PerpetualDreamer: You need to specify what aspects of the supernatural/paranormal you are talking about. I won't go to bat for the chupacabra, but I believe there is more to heaven and earth then what we can see. (not sure where that quote is from)
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Godwhisperer
Godwhisperer: Was into spiritualism, psychic awareness, soul power, new age, ECK(hindue based religion-out of body travel via dream technique), & telekiness. These all open the spiritual door to the soul & the spiritual plane.
To make a long story short, the Lord came to me & said I could not use his name unless I worshiped him. (At the time I was also participating in church). Shortly afterwards I gave my "whole heart" to the Lord & then the battle began. I had allowed demonic spirits to live in me, but after I gave my heart to Jesus, the spirits had to leave. The truth of the spirit realm is that it is demonic, a true seeker of God is advised to seek God at the altar, not the mystic. Just to dabble in it is contrary to God's word, don't be fooled, there really is a spiritual battle for your soul.
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PerpetualDreamer
PerpetualDreamer: I will not subject you to my beliefs. Please do not subject me to yours.
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Godwhisperer
Godwhisperer: Belief & experences are two different things, however my faith is based on my experences. Like any discussion, you can debate or ignor, but my voice will be heard. Please, feel free to indulge what your seeking has enlightened you.
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Geoff
Geoff: Yes, your voice will be heard. Which means everyone will know how deluded your opinions are, and ridicule you for them.
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Godwhisperer
Godwhisperer: As they will remember in time of judgement.
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Geoff
Geoff: And if there is no time of judgement?

You keep referring to the bible to support your views. You seem to ignore all of the evidence that explains why the bible is unreliable as a source. You have no evidence that your God exists. You have evidence that if your God does exist he would prefer blind apple-polishing obedience over honest doubt.

Let me ask something of you, were you raised by devout Christians?
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Godwhisperer
Godwhisperer: You have no evidence, & no I wasn't raised to know God. You do not speak the truth about any "facts" disproving God, which shows your integrity!!
My faith comes from seeking & finding God, he is true to his word "seek & you shall find me, knock & the door will open". You chose not to seek him, you have no hope.
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staygreen
staygreen: Nothing to see here. Post deleted by user.
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RocktheFlaminCowboy
RocktheFlaminCowboy: Just out of interest sake tell us what experiences you have had. I'm not making fun of you but I like to hear what people have geniunely gone through.
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Godwhisperer
Godwhisperer: This is one of several visitations the Lord gave me, but I consider it one of the most important, he gave me discernment.
One night as I was sleeping the Lord "captured me" & I was standing next to my body. I heard a voice saying "Look at what he is doing to you". I saw this "being or spirit"( though not too clearly) projecting thoughts like a movie projector at me. As I looked closer I could see my wife & I fighting, argueing, shouting at each other. This spirit was inducing an anger mentality on me.
When I woke up at first I was angry at my wife, but then the "vision" came back to me & I realised that this spirit was manipulating me & I quickly dismissed my feelings of anger. For some time this spirit had it's way with me, but once I saw how it was influencing me, this deception didn't work any longer. The bible says to capture every thought, to pulling down strongholds & powers & principalities. If we don't know to question every thought, we can be deceived by not knowing we are responding to an outside influence.
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Geoff
Geoff: Ok, and your 'God' isn't an outside influence?
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goats86
goats86: umm... hav u guys hrd f d parallel universe theory??? it states tht all d universes r arranged in such a way tht its centres join 2 form a perfect circle.... nd each f d universes r such tht events takn place in 1 universe duplicate thmselves in all d universes. einstien said tht time can b divided in2 roughly 10^43 divisions..... nd he said tht a singular pt on ths circle is occupied by a different universe 4 each time denomination.
d 2nd part f ths theory says tht wen an electronm jumps 4m d penultimate orbit 2 d ultimate orbit..... a kind f void is generated in ths orbit. if, by mass-2-enrgy tranformation or however we want 2 do it.... a mass can b forced 2 pass thru ths void in d brief interval..... ths mass thn leaves ths universe nd enters a new parallel universe.... thus resulting in it bein an anomaly in d new universe. in such circumstances d laws governing ths particular universe does not effect it..... resulting in d question...... how do u define god neways??? isnt HE supposed 2 b an anomaly??? wat if ths phenomena f passing a mass thru ths void is possible??? nd if so, wat happens 2 d void tht is created in d othr universe due 2 ths shifting f mass??????
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maha64456
maha64456: i guess the only logical explaination for supernatural events is that there is none and we just call it supernatural because we don't understand the logic behind it ...
14 years ago Report
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john1576
john1576: Tough one this guys. If you go onto the Web and check out the Fox Sisters, you see Americans tried their level best to find out just what was going on over there in Hydesville. Personally I know the supernatural is real, but also know that most folks will never accept the occult as it is so 'way out there'. Also many contributors here like Hevelt can give perfectly reasonable and rational explanations for the 'supernatural'. All I would say to some folks is; 'will you at least accept that the churches virtually bribed one of the Fox sisters into lying about and withdrawing her testimony about her experiences'?
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