Space Travel (Page 2)
Naboo_the_Enigma: Im a biscuit designer and part-time shaman.
Cant u go and engineer yourself a lobotomy?
Oops sorry, religion has already done that for u!
Naboo_the_Enigma: Yeah im sorry too. Why do we have to fight? Why cant we just leave together in perfect harmony, side by side on my piano keyboard, oh lord, why dont we? We all know that people are the same wherever we go. There is good and bad in everyone.*
And afterall we all origante from the same common ancestor, and therefore are all related.
*lyrics kindly produced with permission from Mcartney & Jackson 'Ebony & Ivory'
Riddler_This: Anyway, this topic is on space travel, not religion, so chill there my passively distant friend.
The Buddha Monster: I've actually read a lot about this topic and from what I've read we aren't really all that far away from a trip to some of our closest neighboring stars.
For example, the method of choice for propulsion has always been rocket fuel...but it's just too weak to propel us any vast amount of distance within a reasonable span of time. However, many laboratories around the world are now finding ways to manufacture anti-matter.
In one report I read by theoretical physicist Michio Kaku, we would only need 17 grams of anti-matter to propel a ship to the nearest star within 4 years.
The big problem is though, that at our current rate of manufacturing anti-matter...it takes years to make even 1/1000 of a gram of the stuff. Not to mention it is also the most expensive stuff on earth. 1 gram is estimated to be worth more than every nations GDP combined.
Only time will make it more plausible, but the plans are in the rough-draft phase and are being seriously considered by MANY scientists. This isn't science fiction anymore!
Riddler_This: Great post BuddhaStalin!
Michio Kaku is a great theoretical physicist! It's cool to see someone mention him!
frayfray: I want to read that guys book, I know he has a few, but his new one talks of how thing like anti matter and other fantastic ideas are going to be developed possibly into working models for our use.
frayfray: I wish I had the brains to be a physiscist or engineer. I'm only a chef, but I love Science fiction and read quite a bit. Math was never my strong point, especially the abstract stuff. I wish I could be part of the new developments like Stephen Hawking and black holes and his quest for the thoery of everything. I wonder what philosophical changes there will be in the next hundred years as we understand our place in the universe and realize that a creator there was not, but that we are very lucky to be here and exist at all. What will be our motivation after that, because we know how much of a motivator god can be. Can science and exploration be that kind of motivator. Or do we something more.
Riddler_This: When God is taken out of the equation, you have no equation, and subsequently will have nothing to solve for. As long as We keep God and science in perspective we won't have a problem advancing and discovering new fields of science.
Naboo_the_Enigma: 'We Sacrifice the Intellect to God' - Ignatius Loyola
'When God is taken out of the equation, you have no equation, and subsequently will have nothing to solve for. As long as We keep God and science in perspective we won't have a problem advancing and discovering new fields of science.'
A topic on science and not religion. he says.
What god would you be refering to here? Zeus, Apollo, The great Ju-Ju of the mountain-top, Thor, the flying spaghetti monster, or another as yet unknown pantheon of gods that are waiting in the imagination of mankind?
Science and religion are exclusive to one another. Just ask Galileo when he disproved that earth was not at the centre of the universe as the bible so egocentrically claimed.(further proof that christianity was a religion, made by man, for man)
If one must have faith in order to believe something, or believe in something, then the likelihood of that something having any truth or value is considerably diminished. The harder work of inquiry, proof, and demonstration is infinitely far more rewarding, and has confronted us with findings far more 'miraculous' and 'transcendent' than any theology.
Wouldnt you be suited in persuing such theological sciences such as were, in the past persued with such fanatical intensity: measuring the length of angels' wing or how many of these mythical creatures could dance on the head of a pin?
The Buddha Monster: frayfray:
The book I have is called "Physics of the Impossible"...he pretty much covers everything you've ever imagined about the future. It's a really good book.
I completely understand why you're so hard-wired to religion. I, myself, am a spiritual person in the Christian sense - I'm just not Christian in a religious practice (if that makes any sense at all).
But Naboo, your science and religion arguement is almost certainly defunct, and I can tell you why.
In the world of theoretical physics, an analogy can make things a lot easier to understand. So, for example:
The 1st dimension is seen (by humans) as a (imaginary) dot.
The 2nd dimension is a line connecting two dots.
The 3rd dimension (AKA everyday life to you and me), is best interpreted by this example:
Let's say that you are a 2D figure (you have no height), and that you encounter a person from the 3D perspective. That person would appear instantly to you. That person would shift in size and shape constantly, but would seem like complete magic to anyone. The best example is for you to imagine that you live on a sheet of paper. Now imagine that someone sticks their index finger through that sheet of paper. You can't possibly see where that's coming from, but each millimeter of the finger changes in width and length the entire time it's going through the paper. It's almost God-like for a 2-dimensional figure to witness a 3-dimensional object.
This theory goes all the way up to 10 dimensions and honestly, I don't have the hand strength to type it all out - but the video available at this site explains it very well:
I believe that 10th dimension is God. And that's why science = God in my opinion.
flashie: indeed. or grahams number? (ty mrsrivers) i hope its not like the bible code hoax.
but back to the topic
im alright, i like chillin out down here. give me a beach and some bermuda shorts anyday
You're taking previous knowledge of specific sub-groups of Christianity, more specifically Catholicism and trying to apply to me and my faith. But I am not Catholic and your statement has no relation to my own belief.
Many people of differing faiths and beliefs and said things and done thing that I nor most people these days would agree with, and these people of the past have no reflection on me now, how could they? I believe something entirely different. And the ability to err is none-the-less a human trait, one we are all guilty of, and I would apply this knowledge to many of those situations to HELP explain their causes.
I apply God to science as a core belief. He is the center, He is everything. Knowing this does not diminish my curiosity or determination in determining truths rather; it enhances it. Knowing He has set everything in motion the way He has makes me believe that one way of knowing God can be through science, and our knowledge of it is still very small at at the nano or molecular level.
I agree that it could be entirely possible that God, and heaven could be located in of the higher dimensions; string theory is so primal right now that there are high hopes for some amazing discoveries, just a matter of how to access those dimensions! How could would it all be though, really?
The Buddha Monster: Riddler:
I also have high hopes for other dimensions, but I don't think it will amount to anything short of utter chaos. Just imagine that you could change your life whenever your heart desired...it would be absolutely insane - not to mention that when you reach this other parallel in time (say one in which you are a global leader), you wouldn't BE you. You would be a completely separate entity watching yourself do extraordinary things, and technically, you would probably act absolutely NOTHING like that different you, probably wouldn't even get along with them lol
But the best part of our scientific community at the present is that these types of ideas are no longer ridiculed or considered heretical by a governing church or government. We are in a period of time right now that is intellectually equivalent to the Roman and Egyptian ages, in which the thirst for knowledge is not only encouraged - but is rewarded and is (mostly) free of ridicule from people who do not wish to pursue these ideas. Our society is going to grow exponentially from this train of thought (and since our brains are becoming pretty much the only thing we use, our children are getting smarter with every generation!). Just imagine...50 years from now...it's entirely feasible that complex Algebra will be taught in a normal 5th grade classroom. Space travel will (in my opinion) be a thing of reality within the next 30 years.
You're completely right Riddler - it is absolutely incredible.
Riddler_This: Yes it is!
It's fascinating to think that we could be walking through ourselves right now... with dinosaurs... in another dimension!
And in any one of the many dimensions we are aware of, yet do not perceive, the physical laws of nature may be different. What we perceive as gravity here, might not even exist there.
However, I don't think space-travel will reach any-sort of reality in our lifetime. Other than the use of the space-shuttle and human trips to the moon, I doubt we'll see much progress over the years. It would be really cool if we did!
frayfray: Thanks Buddha, I'll pick that book up and probably the beyond einstein book too. If you have read Arthur C. Clark, than you have heard the line "what advanced technologies are developed would seem magical to any lesser developed civilization". This applies in two seperate examples that I wish to discuss, ther are more I'm sure, but writting a book is not what this is for.
First, if a civilization aquired sufficient technologie and applied it and say perhaps they were able to explore all dimensions and perhaps appeared to us as they explored these dimensions, they might be mistaken as gods.
Second, we have seen this happen when explorers made contact with isolated peoples in South America. They mistook the Spanish and Europeans for gods because of the advanced weapons and ways they used metals and preserved food. All things that weren't seen before. This was also a way for them to exploit those peoples for there own interests.
kittybobo34: was reading the extra dimensions comments made earlier, Hawkings early math on the subject worked out when he added 11 dimensions.
Concerning space travel, what its really waiting on is decent robots. Once we can get Drone like robots to do the work outside and build the habitats, there will be no stopping us.
I also feel that once we are off this planet we wont want another. All the resources and free power are in space, not on a planet. We can build as many habitats and travel where ever we want from there.
kittybobo34: PS, interstellar travel has some pitfalls, too much debris out there to get any decent speed.
kittybobo34: Concerning anti-mater, it's possible we might find some in space, Big Bang theory says that anti-mater and mater were both created, and then annihilated each other. If anti-mater has a reverse gravity effect we might find some in interstellar space.
Stephen2020Vision: Well yes and no I am somewhat disappointed in the fact that we do not yet have colonies on the Moon and Mars and so on...
However at the same point, they probably did play it safe, the International Space Station for example has taught us a lot about how to survive in space and has been a much safer way for us to learn how to safely get to Mars I think, so progress is really a matter of interpretation.
The ISS you could argue is a stepping stone towards a safe Mars mission. I know it's frustrating for some, but realistically we don't want humanity to go Mars before we are ready, and have taken every step we can to reduce the risks. It's my hope though that by the 2030s, we will be ready.
kittybobo34: Personally I think whats really needed is drone robots, where the operator can sit inside and get things done outside.