If God exists, where is he? (Page 174)

bonzono
bonzono: "He set everything up in advance "
yes, this is the consquence of an all knowing, all powerful god.

put another way, god already planned every putin
every murder
every child rape

"It seems like God is trying to tell us something"
well, if he "set everything up in advance " he already knows how that will turn out, oddly enough, he knew what that would involve, given that the way he created us.

He could, of course, have created us differently, but no, child rape is definitely on the cards there.


odd, isn't it zan, how you manage to contradict yourself in consecutive posts, but .. the expectations for theists making actual logical sense are very, very low. That low expectation, zan, you don't manage to meet.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: "what language will it be in?" - Ghost

Farsi and Arabic.
Translations in many languages are available at the tip of your fingers. Free to all.
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bonzono
bonzono: odd.

god won't communicate in a language that everyone can understand..


god's a bit of a prick like that.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Here we see the problem with the dude on his cloud. He hasn't updated his approach in thousands of years. He picks one language to broadcast his diktats in and expects everyone to understand what he's trying to say. Doesn't he remember that he buggered up human language at the Tower of Babel so that humans wouldn't comprehend what each other was saying?
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Why would the language matter? Humans can learn to speak as many foreign languages as they've got time to learn. My MIL could speak 7 of them. She lived in Europe, where a different language was spoken just a stone's throw away because the countries are so small and people travel.

That came in handy during WW2 when she was a nurse. She told me the government conscripted all healthy women to be nurses, due to people getting blown up every day. Her only complaint was of a serious shortage of medical supplies.

Use it or lose it. If you don't speak a language for a long time, you forget it, even if its your mother tongue. Naturally, no one forgets body language. So, what language or elements of language do you think they forgot? What about common sense, logic, courtesy, mildness, positivity, clarity, honesty, or silence?

Could there be another means of conveyance?
(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: OK, so let's presume that the next set of scriptures from him on his cloud are all in glowing Korean. Are you saying that you'd learn Korean so you can read them? So why haven't you learned Farsi and Arabic so you can grapple with Baháʼu'lláh's output?
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Where I live, there's no one with which to practice - one needs speakers to keep up. Additionally, that requires learning a new script, and reading from right to left. I trust the Baha'i scholarship method of translation; it's officially approved and universal.

Native speakers tell me the only thing missing in translation is the beauty. When I counter that I think they're already very beautiful, they explain it's way of understanding. The Eastern language is understood with the heart but, the Western language is understood with the mind.

Oddly, I found that to be true with music from the two hemispheres. You might say the Word of God is a kind of song. You need the ears, not plugged with wax or thumbs.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Yes, well, it seems to me that this God of yours should ditch language in favour of some other means of communication. Shouldn't be hard for the old buffer, seeing as he's supposed to be the most powerful being in existence.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: The idea is that He lifts UP and expands our intellect; dumbing things down is for the shrinking brain.....and texting. The 'sudden' advances in our knowledge and understanding are strictly due to God having recently passed by.

Language changes according to that knowledge. New words are the expression of a changed environment while the increased precision of language rules reflects a new storymind.

For example, the last letter was added to the English alphabet exactly 500 years ago and quotation marks are the last addition to punctuation, added in the 17th century. How differently we think and speak today!

Baha'i scriptures compare the measure of knowledge bestowed on mankind to the alphabet: In all the past dispensations, that amounted to only TWO letters. The most recent dispensation releases ALL the remaining letters. This means the modern child is wiser than the wisest man of all the ancients.

That doesn't mean the ancients were wrong, it means they were simple people, building the foundations for a future society. God didn't intend us to live forever in the basements.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Having said all that, the current language trend is a soup of acronyms.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Do you really believe the modern child is wiser than Plato?
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Not the brain-damaged kids, eh. We're talking about the average mean, not the extremes.

I read Plato as a young teen and just rolled my eyes—overrated bag of wind. Socrates would have been disappointed at his divergence from reality. I liked Socrates.

Our children are wiser because they begin their education as soon as they can talk. We have amazing teaching tools. What mother wouldn't use everything at her disposal to ensure her children (both genders) are successful people when ready to fledge?

Should a parent fail, kids will learn from other kids and adults. However, they're not always discriminating in how they choose to entertain themselves.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: So Plato didn't impress you. I guess that means you don't believe in Atlantis? Mmm, yes, this does make me wonder why you have such faith in the Jewish myths, seeing as they're more wind from long ago.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: No need to "believe in" Atlantis - it was found and not quite what it was cracked up to be. Of course, nothing much was left. Even before it was found, one should have intuited that it was never as advanced as successive civilizations. Like, who builds their city on a volcano? Oh, wait.........

Furthermore, many ancient coastal towns and nations are now underwater. Ironic, yes?

All nations began well but all of them eventually fell to corruption. Classic traits of underdevelopment. Classic Old World cycle.

Jewish myths? What, that they used to slap each other X number of whacks with a leather switch for misbehaving...that they'd rend their clothes in grief? Maybe you meant the water rituals - plunging their bodies in water to make themselves feel clean on the inside? How silly. Have you tried it?

I believe we're gradually becoming more mature; we're being forced to grow up because the time has come when it's necessary.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: So Atlantis has been found. OK, so where was it? I hope you're not going to say Santorini because I believe that notion got the boot some time back.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Santorini. Still stands - there's Lidar camera footage and other evidence, including scientific proof that give the date of the eruption.
Apparently, somebody got east and west reversed in the story. You see, had it been west of Gibraltar, Egypt (the source of the story) wouldn't have known about it.

According to scriptures, this is the day that all things will be revealed.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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bonzono
bonzono: honestly I want to know where atlantis is too.

"No need to "believe in" Atlantis - it was found ..."
where?

citation needed
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: So what has been revealed? Haven't heard which number is going to win the lottery or anything else that might be useful.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: No one will win the weekly lottery any time soon - it's fixed. The devil prevents wins until the Jackpot is unspeakably and embarrassingly high. How can that winner claim he has no sense of greed?

What has been revealed? OMG, advanced science and technology! Mandatory, universal education and a universal language, plus instant access to any kind of information we want. The moon isn't made of cheese after all.

Since we have all the tools the ancients didn't, we're digging up new facts every day. Nevertheless, we still have folks who reject the facts because they don't like them, not because they have new evidence. In civilized countries, we don't shoot them.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: You know for a fact that the Devil rigs the lottery? He tell you, did he?
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Not all lotteries, just the *weekly* ones where the prize builds when there are no winning number combinations. Computers run those events - they do what they're told. Some of us weren't born yesterday.

The prize is never 2 million dollars. Who needs 200 million bucks? Ok, maybe a certain American politician to pay his Lawyer to keep him out of jail.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Sorry but I can't see the Devil fiddling around with computers.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Hahahahahahahahah.......................bugszzzzzzzzz...........
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Does the spiritual realm invest in the latest hardware? Or does it use something that Babbage would consider outdated?
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Zanjan
Zanjan: The spiritual realm is far more powerful than the physical realm. The Concourse On High can influence minds here, not the other way around. They do that only for the good.

Now, define "good". I'd say "good" means whatever is in our best interest. If that means a severe test, then so be it. We should pray for tests but not for violent ones.

I had a test via computer recently; it occurred through a freak twist of fate. Although it was an annoying inconvenience, that kind will never happen again because a fix has been installed. No harm done; in fact, that added a new convenience.

They say every cloud has a silver lining.
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