Religious certainty of what they think is true.

GeraldtheGnome: Everything supernatural and every religious story that religious people think is true is constantly scrutinized. So what are they wrong about and what are they possibly right about ?

GeraldtheGnome: ‘Zanjan: GTG: “Faith is a belief system,”

Sometimes the word “Faith” is used to identify a belief system; however, faith, itself, is trust. Meanwhile, Religion is a system of education.

Re: the first paragraph:

What is proof to one person isn’t necessarily proof to another. Individuals can deny the proof because they don’t like it - denial doesn’t negate the proof. How many proofs one needs to be satisfied is entirely up to the individual. We can’t formulate what proof should be, we can only observe it at hand.

When I say I’m certain of a thing, it’s because I have plenty of proof to satisfy ME – that’s all that’s required for certainty to exist. In that case, I’m making a truthful statement about my position. The proof was never dependant on *you*.’

Zanjan: You need to put quotation marks at the beginning and ending of remarks that aren't yours.


"So what are they wrong about, what are they possibly right about".

They're wrong about everything they disagree with and right about everything they agree with. First and foremost, religion is a school of *divinity*. Therefore, we look to similarities, not differences. Consistency is key at any level of instruction.

1. God is the Creator of all things in existence.
2. God made creation in stages
3. The ultimate purpose of creation was to produce Man
4. The purpose of Man is to know and worship God
5. The purpose of religion is to transform the character of humankind and to develop, within those who respond, moral and spiritual qualities.

The above points are irrefutable amongst religious folk; all agree so they're all right. Forget the one that doesn't believe in the existence of a deity - they're in a different place.

Religious folk have different perspectives on a few things, which don't necessarily make them right or wrong. They're about the nature and mysteries of God..............all we can know about God we can only know through His Universal Manifestations - His Revelators. They teach us how to recognize the signs of God. This can take nearly a lifetime, which means individual understanding should always be changing.

Most will agree that God is incomprehensible but they still form an opinion anyway. Whatever their opinion is, that would be wrong. That is, to conceive an image in one's mind of what God is, would be sheer imagination. The part can't surround the whole. Our place is to pay attention to what God says about Himself:

1. God has power over everything
2. God is a living Being
3. God knows all things
4. There is only one God
5. God is trustworthy, wise and loving
6. God loves order and desires our happiness
7. God has a Grand Plan which is continually unfolding

GeraldtheGnome: You made some errors. I put in what was close enough to the quotation marks that you went on about, when I'm not speaking and when someone else isn't I don't put question marks onto anything that is not actual speaking. Fo someone that gets angry about copying anything of yours that isn't private you sure do copy anything of mine and of other people. How do you know what others are right about and what others are wrong about ? Religious bias has been shown by you at times and I've seen people with religious bias fight against others with religious bias, the latter is on that stupid Faith forum that Blackshoes made after his last one was deleted, it's hilarious. He actually has two of his mates fighting each other, he never should have been able to make another faith forum, yet they let it happen. Basically if anyone goes against Christianity even if they are fair on there get their stuff deleted, it's not as bad as the deleted forum with the same name, it's worse. One sided rubbish.

Religion is a Human interpretation (by mere mortals) of the unknown. There is no we involved in it, I don't look for what I want to believe, I look for what is true and for what is possible. Anything unproven that will always remain to be unproven won't make me believe that what is unproven is certainly true because I haven't disproven it. That's what my Blind Faith forum was about and I will bring it back. I don't know where you were going with that consistency bit, it seemed like a menu for soup or something like that, I know you didn't mean it that way but I also still can't work out what you meant. You use the words things and existence differently than I do. To me anything that lives is all that does exist, a building is around for example, yet it also is not a life form, therefore it does not exist.

For examples of certainty where it is thought that something is true anything that even away from religion that's considered a matter of fact when it isn't is claimed to be true. It's basically I think that it is so therefore it must be so. But is it ? Is it not just begging by anyone who wants a certain answer therefore it must mean this or that ? Here are examples, when there is God has, God is, the claim that only one God is around, God loves, God made and God has. That means that you have already come to the conclusion that there is a God around somewhere right now without knowing that it is true. For certainty to be right there must be enough evidence to prove what is assumed to be certain, without that the best case scenario is that what is claimed is only possible. It's just himself, not Himself. I look at it differently. Is there at least one god around anywhere right now ? It's possible, but it can't be proven, so I'll never be right if I claim that I am certain that there is at least one god around somewhere right now. Is every god made up ? It's possible, but it can't be proven, so everyone that claims that every god is certainly made up is certainly wrong that they know what is true when they don't.

So rather than me looking at if God even does exist I have to look at the claim without the word existence in it. God is the creator of all things ? This is the first question you should have asked yourself, for me all that isn't a supernatural being and is not something else that isn't alive is a thing, I mean everything that is inorganic. If you look at any religion that has that the Earth and everything that doesn't include at least one supernatural and life form that was created from nothing you have a problem because only nothing is created from nothing. Something can't be created from nothing. So any claim of such is about a false god, so no matter what the name for the god is it is a made up god. God is the creator of all ? Another question you should ask yourself, I just showed you that he is not because he is imaginary. So out of the 12 that you listed, (most of the time without a full stop each time), you are wrong with nine of the just by me doing that. If one is to know a god named God then that god can't be an imaginary god, but I showed that he is made up, this means that no one has ever known a god named God, no one does and no one ever will. Creation without it being created from something is impossible, creation by spontaneous generation is also impossible. If you mean something being created by something without spontaneous generation then it is possible.

Why worship an imaginary god and why would anyone think that they know a god ? No one is ever going to know if a god is around or not. The purpose of religion is the Human interpretation of the unknown, the horrible result is that many people have been fooled to believe that what hasn't been explained outside of a religious story must be true because the story has in it that anything supernatural within the story is true including the supernatural beings of the story. Believing in any other thing about it is just an example of someone who has fooled herself or himself. I hate the word irrefutable so place use a thesaurus next time. I'm not a fan of that semi-colon next to the word either. All agree ? Who all are exactly the all that you mean ? I'm interested in what is right, not what a group thinks is right. A supernatural being maybe around but if that one is not alive as we know one being alive then that one does not exist even if that one is around since that one is not a life form. Any claim of a god without shape and/or has never been seen is a made up god. There are things that those who are religious and those who aren't religious aren't necessarily right or wrong about.

Again you referred to a god named God. As I've told you after 597 AD the name God was used for the first time, the god of the Hebrew writing is first accidentally named Elohim, which in reality means gods, then later there are verses that further show that it is really about gods, not a god. When you look at Hebrew and English you will notice the difference when the English name is mistakenly used for the same god. All of Genesis one has about Elohim, in other words the gods, Genesis two only changes with that pattern with the fourth verse being about Yahwe (Yahweh) and the other gods (as in the word Elohim was used]. So it was about Yahwe (Yahweh) and the gods all the way until Genesis three, verse 21 when it was solely a reference to Yahwe (Yahweh). Then it went back to what it was before that, all of verse four is about Yahwe (Yahweh), only the gods (Elohim) is mentioned in chapter five except for one verse solely about Yahwe (Yahweh) and chapter six has some verses solely about Elohim (the gods) and other verses solely about Yahwe (Yahweh). Now out of everything you claimed in your last message you didn't even try to ask yourself how all of it is so. You just thought that it was so, didn't look to see if that could be proved or disproved and then showed me the message. That's what happened. There's no need for a chain of full stops. Hebrew was around well before English. You, like me, can't prove or disprove that there is or isn't one god that is around somewhere right now, that makes both of us agnostic, we also don't believe that each god certainly is around right now and that's what makes both of us atheists.