Theodicies. Have the Christians any answers to the problem of evil? (Page 5)

harpalycus47
harpalycus47: Now answer the question or just tell me whether it is can't answer or won't answer.
2 years ago Report
0
zeffur
zeffur: re: "How can you make an irrational decision in a perfect world?"

That question is irrelevant as it isn't based on reality--it's based on fantasy--there is no perfect world.

If you are referring to the utopia that God created for Adam & Eve, then the answer is that Adam & Eve had free will to decide for themselves whether they would disobey God & eat the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil. Living in a utopia didn't mean they couldn't make the wrong decision & do what was forbidden.
(Edited by zeffur)
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: Which of these is true then, Zeffur.
The Garden of Eden was not perfect.
Adam and Eve were not perfect.
They were not given relevant perfect knowledge
(Edited by harpalycus47)
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: Sorry, typo
2 years ago Report
0
zeffur
zeffur: The Garden of Eden was a perfect utopia created by God for Adam & Eve.
Adam & Eve were created perfect & provided with free will & the law about not eating from the tree of the knowledge of good & evil & the knowledge of the consequence that doing so would cause them to die. No one knows for certain how long they lived there before they disobeyed God's law. Being created perfect does NOT mean they could not corrupt themselves by disobeying God, as I have already previous clearly stated to you in past discussions on this topic.

They were given all the knowledge that they needed to know not to disobey God & what the consequences would be if they disobeyed God. They were not ignorant of the law or the consequence of disobeying it.
(Edited by zeffur)
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: So, exactly how, knowing it was wrong, knowing the consequences, being perfectly rational and, having been made by God, no flaws in their thinking, or inability to control emotions or whatever. Nothing that could interrupt their perfectly rational thought processes -HOW COULD THEY COME TO THE WRONG DECISION?????.
2 years ago Report
0
zeffur
zeffur: Eve claimed the snake beguiled her & Adam blamed her for giving him the fruit to eat. Being created perfect doesn't mean they couldn't decide to make the wrong decision. Eve's error was in deciding it was more important to be more like God than it was to obey God. She chose a desire for mental power over obedience to God--which is no surprise as women are born weaker & have a tendency to always want more...
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: So, who put the snake in the Garden of Eden?
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: And who made women weaker with a tendency to want more.
2 years ago Report
0
zeffur
zeffur: God allowed it of course. How else could they be tested thoroughly?? God had already banished satan & his demon angels to the earth before Adam & Eve were created.
(Edited by zeffur)
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: Why did God need to test them? Didn't he absolutely know everything about them? Or is God not omniscient??
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: I just hope, for your sake, that no woman whom you know ever sees what you just wrote about women.
2 years ago Report
0
zeffur
zeffur: For the same reason that all other beings are tested--that is his preferred method to record their decisions & actions during their lives as evidence of their conduct. God already knew whether they would succeed or fail--but they needed to be tested nevertheless for the record.
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: So, we'll go back to Satan. Wasn't he a perfect being in a perfect environment with perfect relevant knowledge as well?
2 years ago Report
0
zeffur
zeffur: I don't share your fear of women. Honest women know how women are...You can have all of the other dishonest women as they are of no importance to me.
(Edited by zeffur)
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: And how did he get into the Garden. Didn't God think to have seraphim with burning swords guarding the entrance?
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: You have got to be kidding me. The whole test that resulted in the eruption of Vesuvius, the Black Death, the Holocaust and so on ad infinitum was due to a bureaucratic requirement for record keeping, for an OMNISCIENT God.?
2 years ago Report
0
zeffur
zeffur: All beings that are created by God have free will. satan is no different, except that he was created more special than the other angels in certain ways. satan & his followers (other angels that are now referred to as demons or minions of satan) were booted out of heaven before Adam & Eve were created. But, satan was allowed to go to heaven for certain purposes--like in the case of Job.
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: And he already knew they would fail. So he must have made them in a condition to fail. This is getting worse and worse. You are now saying that THEY didn't fail, God made them fail.
2 years ago Report
0
zeffur
zeffur: There was nothing preventing satan from entering into Eden--but, I suspect that he was prevented from doing anything he wanted to do to Adam & Eve before they became imperfect due to their disobedience.
(Edited by zeffur)
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: The Adam and Eve that God deliberately created in a condition to fail.
And then he blames them?
And us, who had nothing to do with it?
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: Exactly what kind of God do you worship???
2 years ago Report
0
zeffur
zeffur: re: "harpalycus47: And he already knew they would fail. So he must have made them in a condition to fail."

All beings with free will can fail to disobey God--but, not all do. There are many angels that have never disobeyed God that are with God in heaven.

re: "This is getting worse and worse. You are now saying that THEY didn't fail, God made them fail."

No, I did not make that assertion. Your faulty thinking is trying to arrive at that false conclusion.
(Edited by zeffur)
2 years ago Report
0
BelgianStrider
BelgianStrider: Hi Harp all the pleasure is mine to see you here
2 years ago Report
0
harpalycus47
harpalycus47: How can they fail if they are perfect?
The only possible answer is that God made them imperfect.
Or is God incapable of making something perfect?
Which is it?
2 years ago Report
0