Why is brainwashing children an acceptable practice in modern society?

TheismIsUntenable: Most children are indoctrinated into their parent's religion from a young age, around the time of Santa Claus and other folklore characters.

This does not afford them a choice in the matter as their trust is placed in their parents to help them navigate the world properly.

I am sure you would not be pleased to learn that a child was brainwashed into some other religion that isn't your preferred one, correct? Well since we do not have any reason to suspect that any of these religions are actually true, we ought not be imposing any of them on a child.

Those who have imposed their religion on their children / have had it imposed upon you, why have you done this and do you find it acceptable? If yes, why is it acceptable?

MJ59: I never pushed my beliefs onto my children, wife was a god believer, I wasn't.

Kids were always free to make their own choices after looking into it for themselves.

Mum told them what she believed and I told them what I didnt believe, too easy

TheismIsUntenable: A wonderful example, Beaver. That's the hallmark of a good relationship.

That's how I was raised as well. Parents never encouraged or discouraged church. If friends wanted me to go, I often went with them as well. Not a big deal at all.

Children are naturally curious so it's helpful to allow them to go where they please assuming it is safe of course.

MJ59: Children aren't dumb, they are qualified to choose what feels right for them, not what others THINK they need

Apokalupto: America for example was built on Christian principles of freedom that we inherently have that are not given to us, there are a list of things I could get into, long story short we started with Christian principles why should we deviate? it is Christian principles that got rid of slavery in the US and the UK. the US grew extremely quick, it was very very prosperous and it was considered extremely free world, and it was very wholesome. why deviate from what is good? you may point to whatever you want in the Bible and say well I don't think this is good I don't think that is good, but you can't deny the outer effect it had on the United States as a whole.

Apokalupto: for example, the US got out of slavery, it was Christians who pushed this, things that they learned from the Bible principles that they learned from their mother and father. over time things began to get better and better, people began to be less racist they were less problems things were being better, because of Christian principles racism was being deleted although it was not fully deleted which you can never fully be eradicated, there's always somewhere someone who doesn't like someone else. but contrast this with the new age beliefs, with social justice, with the modern moral principles, which have basically created a clash between races. these groups say things like we have sinned and we deserve to be punished.

why? we're actually climaxing into a better place more and more until the new age moral propaganda filled the minds of young people. they actually believe that we as the children of the fathers should be punished. but the Bible says that the sins of the father shall not be imputed under the son nor the son to the father. but everyone shall bear their own sin.

in modern terminology, whoever commits a crime they are responsible for the crime that they commit not their children or their children's children or their children's children who did not commit the crime.

but this is what the new age social justice moral compass says.
so they keep saying how racist the United States is. this is absolutely hilarious considering our history, where we started out bad but because of Christian principles and morals we came out actual slavery and we were getting better but today we're treating ourselves as over worse and worse and that we need to be punished more and more.


the scheme of things is that communism needs to pit different groups against each other, so they create racial issues they heighten the issue they keep saying how racist we are they keep talking about it on the news they make people angry.

so if it were on a chart, we would see that the chart WAS going up, getting better and better but then we topped off and now we're going downhill again because of the new age moral social justice compass which is totally degraded and racist in and of itself. just look at these groups that are burning things down and they say it's for social justice and they deserve it and this group deserves to be down on other people to even scale, because that's what Justice is, it's balance but how can you justify something that happened a long time ago they destroyed people's property that has nothing to do with who they're angry against, no such thing exists, they made it up, it's racist and and destructive and hateful and not balanced, but this is where we're heading because we don't have Christian morals like we used to.

Apokalupto: from an evolutionary perspective there is no right and wrong it's whatever the society decides this is why when these groups talk about social justice it's whatever they make it to be but it's not actual balance it's just hate in and of itself and it pits people against each other and makes more people hate these people and those people hate these people and then they talk about it on the news and it makes people more angry and it just creates more problems. and round and round it goes because they don't actually have a standard anymore.

in fact evolution leads to racism inherently. but according to the Bible all men are equal created in the image of God and are of one blood. whether you would like to accept that as the truth or not because you believe in evolution or some other religion whoever's reading this, no one can deny that what I just quoted is the highest good for humanity between different groups and "races". but for those who hate the Bible I'm sure you'll try to find something that looks heinous and take out of context.

parents have a responsibility to teach their children what is good and right. and if Christian principles that I have quoted above are better than what the society are suggesting then I'm going to go with the Bible because I don't know anything better than what I just quoted.

TheismIsUntenable: Xrus, the Bible was used as a tool to support slavery as well as deny it. The Bible goes as far as to state how to treat slaves, which is really bizarre if you're making the argument that it does not tolerate such things. The US was also one of the last countries to abolish the practice.

But what does any of what you said have to do with the topic I presented? Are you saying that the ends justify the means? Brainwash is fine because it achieves the goal you want?

Zanjan: XP wrote " it is Christian principles that got rid of slavery in the US and the UK."

No, it wasn't. Christians had been slave owners since Jesus walked the earth. All societies in the world had slaves, even before the Bible - this wasn't unique to any race or culture.

Speaking of "principles", many latter-day Christians were racist and misogynistic and spread fear, lies and hatred of other religions.

What turned them around was the Light of a New Day - it was the Will of God that slavery, religious antipathy and sexism should end in our time.

I believe in giving credit where it's due. Christians don't own spiritual values or truth.

Zanjan: Children are entirely dependant on their parents to instruct them on the social graces and give them a sense of morality. We are spiritual beings with souls that need to be nurtured from the youngest possible age.

A parent who ignores that is selfish with no vision of the future; they can't lead their children through the consequences of their actions. They won't grow into obedient and respectful individuals but will do exactly as they please. They'll also crumble when life gets tough. Ever wonder where all the alcoholics and druggies come from?

Those parents have deprived their children of a well- rounded education. What sort of people cut children off from God?

Ignorant children can't make any choice so I'd rather have them be taught any religion rather than none. Of course, a parent will choose a religion they like best.

Those children will thank their parents as long as their parents continue to encourage them to explore more religions. That way, the children will see their parents have no doubts or fears. Kids prefer their educators to have confidence and faith in the material.

If they learn only about one religion, where's the choice? The only option is to become an atheist. When parents are weak, that's exactly what the child chooses.

Kids can make their choice after they recieve an education and have gained some brain maturity - that begins when they've reached puberty.

Zanjan: So, if you teach your children there is no God, that all religions are fairytales, how are you not brainwashing them?

MJ59: They was told, they made their own choices

Zanjan: Based on what? You only said their mother was a believer.....kids need consistency in classes and various teachers. Kids need role models - believing isn't enough.

MJ59: well sorry for not being devout christians lol

Zanjan: Nobody said you had to be. My children's father was brought up Catholic but became an agnostic in his teens. Later in life, he was an avowed atheist. He was a drinker but also a family man who never deprived his kids of anything they needed.

Meanwhile, I wasn't taught any religion at all but as an adult, I became a Baha'i. In my teens, I deeply resented my parents - they were lousy parents and I was a messed up kid who didn't know which way to turn. That was all washed away when I became religious.

So here we have parents with distinctly different values and behaviors. Our kids questioned that, which was ok, but things would have been easier had their father remained a believer. I wanted the very best for our children, to give them things I never had while growing up.

While less than ideal, fortunately, nothing stopped me from sending our children to religious classes every week, and Holy Day celebrations, as well as participating in religious community projects. Their father simply didn't care, which is normal for an atheist.

As adults, two kids chose to be Baha'i and one didn't. Yet none of them were ignorant; they made informed and wise choices with everything in their lives. My only hope was that they would continue to be good role models in society, individuals of excellence.....and they were because those qualities were deeply instilled while they were young.

You can't give your child what you, yourself, don't possess.

MJ59: Yeah well my kids were never stopped from attending scripture etc, i left it to them to make their own choices

TheismIsUntenable: "So, if you teach your children there is no God, that all religions are fairytales, how are you not brainwashing them?"

Well I wouldn't advocate for asserting there is no god or gods, but I don't think this direction is the equivalent to the other. We have very good reasons to doubt the existence of anything supernatural. The world seemingly operates deterministically through laws of nature in an entirely godless manner.

What I would say is that, like you said, offering paths or options is important. You cannot impose your own worldview on your children. They must be made aware of the multiple worldviews which exist, why people believe them, what evidence exists to support them, etc.

It's perfectly acceptable to explain to your children that you're a Christian, and why you believe if it comes up as a natural part of their curiosity. Or that you're Baha'i, or any other of the various religions on the planet. It becomes a problem when your flavor of religion is imposed upon them in a matter-of-fact way.

Zanjan: "the world seemingly operates deterministically through laws of nature in an entirely godless manner."

It's shame you've overlooked symbiosis and balance in general. Nature is another expression of the Will of God; and, man is the only creature that is duel-natured. Man is also the only creature with intellectual ability and, that's the tool to flip between our natures.

This design speaks of intelligence and power greater than any men possess; therefore, it's operation can't be godless. We use the term "godless" as a figure of speech, to describe unacceptable behaviour, actions that are beneath the nobility of the human soul.

Science is acutely aware that the universe could not possibly exist on the limitations of only 3 dimensions - that which describes the physical plane. Parents really should pursue life-long continuing education so their older children won't view them as outdated dorks.

What children find problematic is when a parent fails to live up to the very principles he/she espouses, whether they're religious or not. They can't trust a hypocrite and they'll detect this at a very young age.

Children always "love" their parents no matter how mean and dysfunctional they are, no matter how many dreadfully embarrassing errors they make because their kind of love is only a juvenile attachment. They can outgrow that and any so called brainwashing ever invented. However, the window of grace is always shrinking and closes by age 30.

MJ59: Lol

TheismIsUntenable: "duel-natured"

Sword fighting?

"Man is also the only creature with intellectual ability"

Sure, let just ignore our cousins the chimpanzees and dolphins and dogs and cats and parrots...

"This design speaks of intelligence"

No, it doesn't. This is the WORST possible design. If I'm building a bird house, I don't make 99.999999999% inhospitable to the bird. That would be really stupid.

"They can outgrow that and any so called brainwashing ever invented."

I've spoken to tons of former Christians who took decades to overcome their brainwashing. It's not easy, especially if you're intelligent because it means you can go through mental gymnastics to attempt to maintain your preconceived notion.

Zanjan: Sword fighting - yes, exactly. One has to battle against their own demons - it's slip and slide, then rise and fly....repeated until one gains the upper ground.

Some animals can be pretty clever but, at best, their intelligence is dwarfed and parcelled - they don't have the necessary brain parts which permit the unraveling of mysteries. Ergo, they're permanently bound to a base nature.

I have no idea what you're trying to say- birds build their own nests or occupy another bird's nest - they don't build nests for other species. Bird droppings are often responsible for the appearance of a plant or tree but they have no idea they've done that.

Man is the only creature that willingly builds and plants for himself and others; before he does that, he knows he may never reap the fruit of his work. The tree will grow to provide shade to future generations, rather than in his own lifetime; he may never see or enter the finished building.

Yes, it's not easy to remove brainwashing or the effects of the environment, but nothing worthwhile was ever achieved by taking the easy path. How much more so for greatness.

TheismIsUntenable: "Some animals can be pretty clever but, at best, their intelligence is dwarfed and parcelled - they don't have the necessary brain parts which permit the unraveling of mysteries. Ergo, they're permanently bound to a base nature."

Yeah...this isn't true. There are tons of experiments showing the incredible intelligence of various non-human animals, which rivals and even surpasses humans from tool usage to memory to puzzle-solving.

"I have no idea what you're trying to say- birds build their own nests or occupy another bird's nest - they don't build nests for other species."

Whoosh. You mentioned the Universe was designed, I assumed you meant it was designed for us as that's the common argument put forth by the religious. That is the comparison I draw to building a birdhouse for a bird.

"Man is the only creature that willingly builds and plants for himself and others; before he does that, he knows he may never reap the fruit of his work."

Once again, there are tons of experiments which prove non-human animals are more than capable of planning ahead (especially ravens).

"Yes, it's not easy to remove brainwashing or the effects of the environment, but nothing worthwhile was ever achieved by taking the easy path."

There's a fundamental difference between putting in hard work to achieve greatness and being forced to overcome your brainwashing which puts you behind the curve and helps you in no redeeming ways.

Zanjan: TIU, animal experiments have proven animals can't discuss. In captivity, they've shown they can understand about 150 human words - that doesn't make them able to balance a checkbook or solve mysteries.
Solving a few simple problems like accessing food and making an escape hardly ranks with identifying a missing ingredient and hanging a picture straight on a wall.

The universe was designed to MAKE us. Building us is a spiritual matter.

Animals advance plan using their instinct. They're all slaves to genetic code. Simple problems are on-the-spot fixes, deployed via imitation or by remembering the results of accidents. Birds that don't have a powerful sense of smell have face recognition. Animals don't "invent".

Technically, there's no such thing as "brainwashing" in the sense that someone inserts thoughts in your head that can never be overcome or where another can remove the thoughts in your head.

There is "influencing". This works through others encouraging you to do what you really want to do. There's inspiration, which is the willful borrowing and adaption of an idea.

Hard work and perseverance will get you excellence, not greatness.

TheismIsUntenable: "TIU, animal experiments have proven animals can't discuss. In captivity, they've shown they can understand about 150 human words - that doesn't make them able to balance a checkbook or solve mysteries."

Huh? Non-human animals communicate with each other all the time, especially dolphins. Non-human animals can count as well.

"Animals advance plan using their instinct."

It's not instinctual for a raven to drop pebbles in water to raise its level to a point where it can get to the food. You seem acutely unaware of the experiments that I mentioned.

"They're all slaves to genetic code."

So are you. Point being?

"Technically, there's no such thing as "brainwashing" in the sense that someone inserts thoughts in your head that can never be overcome or where another can remove the thoughts in your head."

Not sure why you're using a definition that isn't standard and wasn't implied in the first place.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/brainwashing

"Hard work and perseverance will get you excellence, not greatness."

These are synonyms...

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/excellence?s=t

Zanjan: I think you're just being a contrarian now. Niggling on irrelevant things is what one does when lost in the forest, missing any points that were made.

By the way, speak for yourself - I rose above my genetic code. I'm the light that radiates from the temple.

MJ59: Funny how you believers think that anyone who doesn;t share your views is "lost"