They Call This Spiritual Warfare (Page 2)

Zanjan: Did you notice how many of them weren't wearing masks or social distancing? I saw one person wearing a mask. What does the Lord say about obedience?

PyroclasticFlo: culling the herd, i guess

prairwarur: Obedience to whom? Obey our Constitution or some official who has absolutely no authority what-so-ever to order that type of command? Who are you to ascribe moral authority over something like wearing a mask? Sounds to me like the same intellect who judged and condemned a smoker. Immediately they labeled that person as morally inferior, and many other insulting adjectives that demeaned their person-hood and integrity. Just because more information about the effects of smoking were coming to light, and suddenly there was a big push to end smoking for everyone, a person who did smoke was deemed morally bankrupt because they picked up that nasty habit in the first place. That's a dangerous attitude, I think, and I am seeing it repeated today over the wearing of masks. No studies are done, been done, being done, nada, to even know which type of mask is going to stop this, anyway. Some folks who think they are protecting themselves, and others, may find out the virus was smaller than the pores on the mask they wore.
Please do not jump to judgment and condemn anyone not wearing a mask without the facts. You cannot know all information concerning the person, or the complete science behind mask wearing, and medical reasons why some should avoid wearing a mask completely.
There are several medical reasons that some cannot wear a mask. Some cannot wear one AT ALL, period, and some may only be able to wear them for short periods of time. But, I'm not going to go into all of that here and now with you. You can do your own homework and research on this. Believe me, the topic is extensive! Accounts of deaths induced through mask wearing, infections, and many other horror stores that are confirmed, not just rumor.
And that brings up another epidemic that should be discussed and talked about on the news, like the risks of masks, but don't bet on it happening. The other issue is suicide and how mask wearing and this virus have pushed up the numbers incredibly. It breaks my heart, too, because it can be avoided. When the public, the news, chatters online, and all of us realize that stress kills more people more often than any virus or disease, and stress can be eliminated. The news, for one, could stop this continual focus on the virus and people need to stop stressing out so much about what others choose to do. We can be informed without being inundated!
Sorry this post has turned into a real rant, but today I'm hearing how Trump "down-played" the virus and so much more negative news and BS news, that I'm on overload tonight. Bear with me!
It brings up "herd mentality" again, which I thought I saw mentioned in another post. There is truly something to this mentality and when Trump gets accused now of "downplaying" it is because creating fear, anxiety and unrest can be just as deadly as a virus. The "herd" can take the bad news and run with it causing more chaos and destruction. Take Wells' "War of The Worlds" famous broadcast, people started to jump to their deaths! Is that what we want now?

Seems to me that panic has already set in, or at least in some places, and a BIG deal being made over the masks, even to the point of violence, so this "order" needs to be rethunked me thinks!
#1 research the environmental damage being done by discarded masks, the personal health risks presented by them.
#2 The psychological impact - especially on the mentally ill, those with PTSD, the very young, or old, or most vulnerable.
#3 Sanitization - how well are the masks you're wear kept clean and disinfected?
#4 which masks are effective and which are not at all? The general public has absolutely no idea, and even science doesn't agree.

The jury is still on on so much. We can decide to not add to this chaotic time. Learn more acceptance and live in peace.
Shalom

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_the_Worlds_(1938_radio_drama)

Zanjan: "Obedience to whom? "

Jesus taught you should respect and obey the laws of the land AND the laws of God - you can do both at the same time since they're harmonious - they cover different ground. All laws exist to create order. Jesus never condoned anarchy or protest. All the Prophets of God have both practiced and taught the same thing.

If ever it happens that the law of the land and God's laws clash - mighty rare - then you must obey the law of God first then bear up under the punishments of civil law, as the Biblical Daniel did.. God will compensate you.

Remember, we aren't the lawmakers; and, no one is above the law. BUT, we do have legitimate avenues for appeal to authorities to grant an exception in our personal case.

Humility, mindfulness, and obedience are spiritual virtues. How can anyone put trust in you if you think you can do exactly as you please? Freedom belongs to those who don't defy the law.

By the way, if I'm immune-compromised, I'm definitely not going to be out rubbing shoulders with others in a crowd, whether I can wear a mask or not. I choose not to tempt fate.

I know somebody who got Covid 19 twice - her system never made antibodies. She's now more vulnerable than those of us who haven't contracted it. You should check out who can't wear a mask - clear face shields are an alternative but those people wouldn't be out in that crowd either.

PyroclasticFlo: wearing a mask protects others from YOUR potential spreading of the disease. it's just selfishness to refuse to wear a mask around other people.

SassyJedi: Some with breathing issues find it difficult to breathe with masks on for various health and emotional reasons. To force mask wearing is selfish and unconstitutional. We have freedoms here in America. Our Republic was founded on foundation of Life, Liberty and pursuit of happiness. Forcing masks for a severe pneumonia aka covid is ridiculous. Our leaders have gone mad. You wear a mask it protects you but don't force others to wear one especially if masks even work. Social distancing seems a better preventive in my opinion. I am disappointed though how easily gov't controls most people. Like sheep they do as told and don't question ir research for themselves. Wake up people. We are being lied to about almost every topic. Satan is a liar and his followers love to follow his example. So put on the full armor of God from Ephesians 6. We fight a spiritual battle. The enemy uses so many distractions to defeat us. Study God's word and pray constantly. God help us please.

Zanjan: "We have freedoms here in America."

Yes, and there's a line you don't cross. Freedom is a *privilege* because you have to buy it. If you do something bad, dangerous or hurtful to others, your freedom and former rights will be removed. Rightly so.

There are always alternatives to make your life more comfortable but if you're unwilling to sacrifice anything, then you don't deserve special attention. It's not too much to ask anyone to stay out of harm's way. If you disagree, take your case to court instead of fomenting strife and division.

We are a social creature, intended to act cooperatively. That doesn't happen when one is angry all the time, taking offense at every leaf that drops. When you make up your own rules, you'll find the world doesn't bend to your will.

By the way, religion was never meant to be weaponized. All spiritual battles are conducted within your own proper self as you strive to acquire divine virtues. Yes, study and pray but submission to God is the only key to obtain His protection.

prairwarur: Well said, Sassy, and they are called "selfish" by those who are themselves being selfish to make these impossible demands on them. If anyone cared enough, they could look up medical reasons that prevent mask wearing, from skin infections, diseases and eruptions, to people with PTSD and how that presents a mental health threat to them. Even rights of the hearing impaired were removed when mask mandates went into affect. Many only communicated by reading the lips of others and then responding.

But, the bigger issue here is that apparently some are so confused they don't understand this cannot be a "law", it is not a "law", so no laws are being broken or "disobeyed." What we've witnessed this past summer is all unconstitutional, from the wearing of masks being mandated, to denying children their constitutional right of an education, and my constitutional right to go to church.

Let me quote those in the know who spend their lives understanding Constitutional Law.

"In point of fact, no governor, in any state, has the authority to suspend the Constitution. And no pretended "Emergency Powers" legislation can give it to him because the legislature cannot give the Governor an authority that they themselves do not have. And any attempt for a Governor to suspend Constitutional rights is an act of lawlessness and a violation of his/her oath of office."

The entire article is long, but people need to understand how our government operates. Liberals made that almost impossible when another stupid mandate they gave was to stop teaching Government classes and Civics classes in high school. Dumb!
Kids today don't even understand the process of government. We were taught the branches of government in school and exactly how they are to operate. Many today cannot even name the 3 branches.

Dr. Patrick Oliver continues with the explanations in this following excerpt ...


The Response to the COVID-19 by State Governments

In states across our nation, governors and mayors — or their health directors — have issued "stay-at-home" orders and "cease business" orders that represent a degree of authority that has not been given to them by anyone.

Just as at the federal level, each state government in our nation has a constitution that mandates a separation of power among the three branches of government (legislative, executive and judicial). And in each case, the power to create law is vested in the legislative branch alone. This separation of powers exists precisely to prevent the temptation of tyranny due to excessive power being located in one branch of government.

The creation of executive orders that become mandated directives is contrary to the separation of powers. Keep in mind that such mandates are not laws since they have not gone through the legislative process. A governor cannot create laws. He can only enforce laws passed by his state's legislative body.

Yet, governors, mayors and bureaucrats are mandating many forms of quarantine as "law." All these mandates are designed to "lockdown" both healthy and unhealthy community members. Normally, quarantine directives are aimed only at the unhealthy population.

In many cases, these executive orders have resulted in stopping people from working, attending church, going to school, and visiting their loved ones in nursing homes. Do they have the "constitutional authority" to issue such mandates? The answer is simply, no.

These state and local officials can suggest guidelines, but they cannot mandate the loss of your God-given freedoms. Under the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights, your unalienable rights to freedom do not cease to exist during a health or any other kind of crisis. The First Amendment of the United States Constitution declares some of these God-given rights for every person.... END QUOTE

All we have to do is read and study them.

Now if you're wiling and ready to do what your government asks of you without question, go for it, I guess. I'd rather do my own research into these matters, like the safety of continual mask wearing, and are they even effective with corona, the jury is still out on this. Someone just mentioned it could transmitted through the eyes, even. They just don't know enough yet.
Are you going to allow your government to shut down business, put people permanently out of work when that happens, which takes food off of their table. What good is wearing a mask when you can't even eat or feed your kids?
How quickly are you going to surrender freedom for socialism? Read some history, folks, and if you don't think it could happen again, read more history. When dictators overtook governments and areas that were once free, the steps taken are easily identifyable. Current events will also show you how the process begins and ends if you look to Venezuela and the happenings there of late.
I'm going to continue to guard my freedom and make sure those I am near understand their need to know this freedom and how it is guaranteed to us in our Constitution. For thirty of more years I have watched certain freedoms being slowly and methodically removed. As they are called, "The Silent Majority" seems to be repulsed by over-reaching governments and their mandates. These folks are incensed at the hypocrisy shown by certain leaders. The recent visit of Nancy Pelosi maskless in a beauty shop just tipped off many to the stupidity of it all. Guess Nancy taking this chance proves it may not be as necessary as they want YOU to believe!

PyroclasticFlo: being cognizant of your fellow human beings' welfare and acting responsibly during a PANDEMIC = "socialism"?

"I don't think that word means what you think it means"

prairwarur: So flo, by your own reasoning, the mask you wear does not work unless everyone else is wearing one, too? If you have on a mask and if it is a positive defense measure against the virus, then that is enough. Your mask should protect you even if no one else is wearing one. Think about that. Now, how is the virus transmitted? Is it airborne? Can it be contracted through our eyes?
The worse case might be if someone dons their mask and goes into areas that are unsafe then later find out that it was not transmitted as originally thought, so the mask did not protect them after-all. This person put their faith into something that could not be guaranteed, and because of this false sense of security, they did things, went places, etc. thinking they were safe when in actuality they put themselves more in harm's way.

PyroclasticFlo: one more time ... a mask is not for your protection. a mask prevents disease carrying spit particles from contacting other peoples' faces. you can be asymptomatic and spread the disease w/o even knowing you have it.

prairwarur: lol flo, we were not talking about another's concern for my well being. If we were talking about the well being of all, then others would also be cognizant of their needs, emotionally, mentally, and physically. As it is here, only the needs and desires of one group, "mandated mask wearers" are being considered. The "non-mask group" have already been morally judged, called selfish and condemned without any facts being presented at all. Nice!

PyroclasticFlo: "the non mask group" is being persecuted. oh woe!

prairwarur: One more time, it is not proven that "spit particles" are involved in the transmission. That sounds like the HIV and Aids hype of the 80's! People would not even drink from the same water fountain as Ryan White out of fear of getting Aids.
Find the source first. Find out how it is transmitted, then raise the panic and alarm as you choose. But, please, first let's get the correct data before you demonize others who happen to think differently than you do.
My point is how seeing folks following their government leaders so blindly without questioning for themselves leads to bigger issues. As I said, history lays out some really interesting facts on how the masses were brought into submission and the tactics used to get them to submit. Our first red flag should have been a government official thinking they have the right to take away your Constitutional rights and then picking and choosing who is "mandated" to do such things and who is not. Just think it through.
Just think how you might feel if the only way you could know what someone is saying is to read their lips and suddenly that was gone. And that's only one aspect of what these "mandates" are doing to our country. It's time to get more involved, me thinks, and make sure we're not being lied to, which we already know we are.

As I said, If Nancy Pelosi is okay without a mask, in a business that is not suppose to be open, then the rest of us can also make those types of choices. This IS America. No one is above the law and everyone has the same freedom.

PyroclasticFlo: "Recent data suggest that there can be transmission of COVID-19 through droplets of those with mild symptoms or those who do not feel ill2. Current data do not support long range aerosol transmission of SARS-CoV-2, such as seen with measles or tuberculosis."

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/non-us-settings/overview/index.html

prairwarur: Give it a day and it's going to change, Flo. That is if you're paying attention. The jury is still out. If you want to come to a conclusion thus far, that is your choice. You just cannot expect others to think the same and what you do and say is also your choice. Let's just not forget we're all free to think, choose and live as we see fit. This is America.
We conveniently stepped away from the topic of this thread, and in my opinion, the real issue at hand - Spiritual Warfare. I think I will return to that topic, as there are already several other threads ongoing about the issues of government today.

PyroclasticFlo: it's folks like you who are slowing the recovery and facilitating the deaths of your fellow Americans. 192 THOUSAND thus far. thanks!

prairwarur: "Folks like me?" I guess I understood a long time ago that you think you are much more superior, but the truth is, you do not know me. You have NO idea of "folks like me", because you don't know any of us. I guess a person like me who investigates for myself, and doesn't believe the hoopla going on is a threat to folks like you who do. You appear to be willing to let others die, or go to the wayside as long as there are those living and doing like you think. I guess if they cannot wear a mask for medical reasons, then just dispense with them as a human. Your rights matter, their's don't. Gotcha!
It's not the first time the masses were lied to and deceived. In the end God wins. Jesus won at Calvary, so no worries. Jesus told us these things were going to happen, even "pestilence". Be prepared. We know the outcome. The storm is here and nothing can stop what's going to happen.

prairwarur: Step one to dictatorships and loss of freedom - demonize the opposition - "folks like you" "slowing the recovery" being a danger to our society. "Folks like you..." Decades ago it was because of transgender people and those with Aids or HIV positive that were a danger to our society. Or, the danger to the world were Jews. Blacks, people of color, anyone who's "different". Let's make them the enemy!
There are groups of people who seem to demonize those different for whatever reasons. It's not that they are different, it's that they are dangerous! Wow!

prairwarur: I did read where a Palestinian person said they had found the cause of covid and it is the Jews after-all. Guess if Trumps not at fault then the Jews are. Silly, silly world!

PyroclasticFlo: lol don your martyr's crown and stand on your saintly soapbox. there's ALWAYS been pestilence. it's only that nowadays we have science which can clue us in as how to mitigate the spread of said pestilence. your prideful demand for "freedom" is just a demand for special treatment, an excuse to be uncaring of your fellow human being, a self righteous braying to justify the shirking of your civic duty.

I had some respect for ya, prair. not anymore

prairwarur: Flo, sorry you do not agree, but I would rather die than not have liberty. If others can live that way, so be it. I see shades of 1984, and Ayn Rand's, Atlas Shrugs in our society today, and it's too much of a "coincidence" to not be alarming, right down to the one news network (CNN) blasted on every TV set in every airport, hospital waiting room, doctor's office, wherever you go all over the land, even Times Square. But, I guess that's just me who questions this, as it seems quite controlled and unusual, given the variety of information sources available today.
I never did trust our governments nor politicians, as I have lived long enough to see with my own eyes what they can do, and I read in history books what they did do, like to Native Americans and Negro slaves.
Power corrupts, as they say. And "absolute power corrupts absolutely..." As soon as it is no longer a government of the people, by the people, for the people, then we're in big trouble. Only one problem for you, that would be to acknowledge that no matter how much you may hate a thing, like someone not wearing a mask, for instance, no matter the threat you think it imposes on you, you still do not have the right to overstep their own right to personal freedom, that freedom guaranteed to every single American. You have to take that completely away from them before you can force your own opinion and science onto them. Freedom no more.

Wait until the facts are set straight, as for now they are not. I think too much panic over this has caused more problems than the virus itself. Yes, you're right, there have always been pestilence but never one man made, as this one, which has far more implications than human kind can imagine. And we don't have the information completely to know exactly what the heck happened here. Too many passing the buck, wanting to blame others, and mainly pointing the finger at Trump. And if you don't think those in charge would use a virus against the people, just remember blankets coated in small pox and given to the Indians. Governments manipulate the people at their own whim if we do not stay diligent. Let's not make it easy for them. Let's do our own in depth research for ourselves to see if they lie or not. I say they do lie and most of the time. As of today we are still free people who get to make our own choices. We'll see what tomorrow brings.

I just realized from your response that this is so serious it will actually cause people to become enemies. I never thought someone would lose all respect over a difference of opinion. I know you really believe what you're saying. I only tried to show you there are valid reasons and good people who cannot abide, nor lawfully do they truly have to. Someone might be arrested, as those folks who were arrested and fined for having church in a parking lot, but they'll soon find out in a court of law there was no right to arrest them, and their 1st Amendment rights were violated. Case dismissed. That is exactly what has happened when law enforcement tries to enforce these "non-laws". And it will continue to happen, because people just won't agree. That's the nature of this whole world, different opinions, even scientific fact. Just depends on which science one chooses to believe. And that's a bit harder today, because many dissenting voices are being silenced by politicians. Yes, the virus is politics!

I'm not making any suggestion that you or anyone else should or should not wear a mask, that is your choice. I've noticed now that those masks we were told to wear a couple of months ago are ineffective and out, as new ones appear and said to be better and what we should be wearing. Total coverage shielding the entire face.
As I said, what a tragedy if someone does insist on a mask that turns out was of no good anyway. That's called "false security." If I am to be secure, I want something proven to offer that security. I'm going to do my own research and listen to differing opinions and arguments, because somewhere in the middle of all that lies truth.
Good luck to you all in these trying times and God's speed to you!
You all know what I believe and that's that Jesus is about to return and to me it's never been more clearer than it is today.
Shalom

The Dark Flower: If Power Corrupts as you claimed, I wonder if the God of the bible, who has too much power, is also corrupted? After all, you are worshipping something that has its own consciousness with its own agenda, with the ultimate power to do as it pleases with nobody being allowed to prevent it from abusing its powers much like a human Dictator but at a much bigger scale.

I find Christians fascinating... Willing to worship a spiritual tyrant who is willing to throw you in the eternal fires if you refuse to accept him as your savor, over a human tyrant who would probably do the same if the human tyrant had such ability to do so.

It's funny how God of the bible is so relatable to a human dictator. The only difference is one has the ultimate power of all reality and the other is limited to the laws of physics.

I personally don't believe in the God of the Bible. So to me, it's all fiction. No truths.
But if such a God did exist, I'd certainly be against it because a God with that much power that demands obedience is an Authoritarian entity that I would consider to be my ultimate enemy.

Zanjan: Prair wrote: “How quickly are you going to surrender freedom for socialism?”

Did you intend this topic to turn into a political debate? If so, I’ll just bypass those rallies.

“For thirty of more years I have watched certain freedoms being slowly and methodically removed”

And you haven’t fixed that yet, eh. You must feel powerless. Maybe you should turn your attention to something that’s doable – like developing an un-enslaved mind.

“Wait until the facts are set straight”

They already are – you’re just having trouble dealing with them.

“This IS America. No one is above the law and everyone has the same freedom.”

Not according to 50% of the population – America continues to be racially divided because that’s a systemic problem. America is sick and the Constitution isn’t healing it. Human rights are breached every day; laws can't cover every possible situation and the poor have no money for lawyers or bribes. So, you need to learn to be happy and free with only a small percentage of your promised rights.

“If I am to be secure, I want something proven to offer that security.”

You’ll just have to wait until a viable vaccine is developed; meanwhile, you should be praising those front line workers who’ve sacrificed so much for everyone else’s health.