The Biblical TRINITY

Apokalupto
Apokalupto: TRINITY

The Obvious teaching of the Trinity that unbelievers deny.

The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost make up one God.
3 persons 1 God.
These 3 persons are not the same person in 3 different modes, they are distinct yet comprise one God.

TRINITY DIAGRAM: apokalupto's Picture
(Edited by Apokalupto)
3 years ago Report
2
Apokalupto
Apokalupto:
The trinity shown at the baptism. The Holy Spirit descends on Jesus, and the Fathers voice is heard from heaven.

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Counting the pronouns, one, two, three.

John 16:3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
(Two persons, the “Father,” nor “me”)

John 16:5 But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?
(Two persons “I go my way to him that sent me”)

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter (Holy Spirit) will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (Another person is sent when Jesus departs)

John 16:8 And when he (Holy Spirit) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

John 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Jesus and the Father will be in Heaven and the Holy Spirit is sent to reprove the world etc.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

1Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of
1-God the Father, through sanctification of the
2-Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of
3-Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father,
the Word, (Jesus) and
the Holy Ghost:
and these three are one.
(Edited by Apokalupto)
3 years ago Report
1
Campion
Campion:
The New Catholic Encyclopedia: "The formulation ‘one God in three persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formula that has first claim to the title of the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective." – (1967), Vol. XIV, p. 299.
3 years ago Report
0
God is real
God is real: lol you still going with this.Chill man chill.Go watch debates on this ....gosh.You and the other camp use the same verses regardless of your positions.Its all about personal bias on how you interpret them gosh
3 years ago Report
0
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: The Trinity is very apparent. It is written in such a way that you cannot "honestly" come to any other position.

ANYONE WHO BELIEVES IN MODALISM REJECTS THE GOD OF THE BIBLE.

Jesus Christ well taught the triune nature of God. It is one of the most obvious teachings in the Gospel of John. That there is but one God, three distict persons. These three persons are not the same person acting in three different modes, they are 3 distinct persons that yet make up one God.

The heresy of modalism teaches that the Father acts or manifests in three different ways or "modes" hence "modal-ism." The Father is the Father, the Son is the Father, the Holy Spirit is the Father. The Father acts in 3 modes in order to accomplish different jobs.

John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

If you believe in the modalist heresy you are calling Jesus a liar, and God cannot lie. If the Father acts in three different modes, then its still the same person. Regardless if the Father transform or manifests as the Son, or Spirit.

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, THAT DENIETH THE FATHER AND THE SON.

John 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Jesus speaks of another which sent Him, He did not send Himself acting in another "mode". Jesus makes a distinction that He is not the Father, and that the Father bears witness of Jesus. They are not the same person wearing different hats for different jobs.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

When Jesus said "I and my Father are one." He did not say I and my Father are the same person wearing different hats for two different jobs.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jesus taught unity, not oneness, He isn't saying that His disciples are suddenly all going to be one man, he's talking about one in unity, not one in number.

John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

So when Jesus said that "I and my Father are one" He clearly wasn't saying that "We are the same person" while im at it, if Jesus was saying "I and my Father are one and the same person" then the Father really does love Himself doesnt He? That really puts new meaning to John 3:16, lets take a look.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Here's the modalist Gospel: For God so loved the world, that he gave himself, that whosoever believeth in himself should not perish, but having everlasting life.

Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Here's the modalist Gospel:
3:16 And the Father when he was in Jesus mode, was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him
3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved self, in whom I am well pleased in myself.

John 16:14 He (Holy Spirit) shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Modalist Gospel: My 3rd mode which is the Holy Spirit, shall glorify my second mode which is the Son, for he shall receive of my second mode, and shall shew it unto you.

John 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

Modalist Gospel: As I hath loved myself, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Modalist Gospel: If ye keep my comments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my own commandments, and abide in my own love.

John 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.

Modalist Gospel: And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not a lone, but I and myself that sent myself.


John 15:26 But when the Comforter (Holy Spirit) is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Modalist Gospel: But when I come to comfort you, whom I will send unto you from myself, even the Spirit of myself, which proceedeth from myself, I shall testify of myself:


John 5:31 IF I BEAR WITNESS OF MYSELF, MY WITNESS IS NOT TRUE.


John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

Modalist Gospel: Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do everything of myself; because I have well taught myself, I speak these things.

John 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Modalist Gospel: And I that sent myself is with me: I have not left myself alone; for I do always those things that please myself.
*************************************************************************************************


Anyone professing to believe in Jesus Christ and yet believes in modalism is not being guided by the Spirit of Truth.

Anyone professing to believe in Jesus Christ and yet does not believe in the Trinity, makes Jesus a liar.

1John 5:10  He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that GOD GAVE OF HIS SON.

1John 5:20  And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

(Edited by Apokalupto)
3 years ago Report
1
God is real
God is real: what you are doing is just taking modalism to the extremes. You are trying to make sense of the nature of god.IT WILL NEVER BE understood correctly.Nobody can apply the definition of a person to god.At what point is a person distinct ?How is it one then ?I believe both triunity and modalism to be true at the same time.
3 years ago Report
0
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: There is no such position, The Trinity and Modalism are opposites in nature. You are showing that you have a deep confusion and darkness over your eyes.

Modalism makes Jesus a liar.
3 years ago Report
1
God is real
God is real: There are several verses where jesus Christ does things which are attributed to the father.This is problematic to trinitarian view because trinity as defined by the creeds states that each person acts its own function and that only the essence is the same.Yet i can quote you even church fathers that give certain actions of one person to the other.Thats why i cant agree triunity is is absolutely true.Yet i will argue that modalism understanding isn't true as well.Both are unable to explain god.Thats my stance.You are forced to re interpret the verses i can provide you to say that GOD MEANT that the GODHEAD as a whole or that the other person will do certain actions but that isn't what the text says.It says that he did it
(Edited by God is real)
3 years ago Report
0
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: The Trinity was taught by Jesus Christ in the Bible, most notably and quite apparently in the Gospel of John and his epistles. It is one of the essential doctrines of the New Testament and of the nature of God. It is non negotiable. It has nothing to do with church fathers, or the catholic church. To be carried away by these later installments by the opinions of men is reminiscent of the Jews lifting up the traditions of man over Gods own Word and become totally lost.
3 years ago Report
1
God is real
God is real: bro your whole argument is that because jesus talks to the father therefore that's showing distinct personality difference.Well the other camp can argue otherwise. Literally one can argue god talks to himself yet you would argue that this doesn't make sense.So spare me the controversy
3 years ago Report
0
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: I'm disappointed to see that you are okay with boiling down the scriptures so nonsensically. I can only pray and hope one day you come to the knowledge of the truth.
(Edited by Apokalupto)
3 years ago Report
1
God is real
God is real: Its not about knowledge.Trinitarians or modalists or sabelenists or whatever people are there know the verses and the knowledge of why you think what you do.Its about convictions.All the arguments are known for centuries,You aren't bringing something new.So when I tell you its non essential teaching...chances are its not as long as you accept Christ is divine.Both groups use the scriptures.Literally its a matter of personal understanding and interpertations.Nothing conspiratorial or groundbreaking about those doctrines duh
3 years ago Report
0
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: You're right, the Trinity is not new, Christ taught it, it's an obvious teaching in the Bible.

What is new is the modalist or sabelenist stuff which makes God a liar and whoever believes in it does not know Jesus or His Father.

It is about knowledge, and not about personal beliefs. Sounds like you are making up your own personal god and faith gir. You're not teaching Biblical Christianity.

Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. -2Peter 3:17
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. -2Peter 3:18


1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that GOD GAVE OF HIS SON.

1John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
3 years ago Report
1
God is real
God is real: yeah pretty sure trinitarianism is non essential....after all god didn't blame the jews for trusting only in the father right.Give me a break man.Its all about interpretations.Also you are factually incorrect about your modalism and sabelenism.Trinity officially formed in the forth century at the nicean council.They derive if from the bible....so does the other groups that teach non trinitarian view.I don't care if yo uargue persons vs modes. Pretty much doesn't make a difference when those terms cannot be understood when they are applied to God.Give me a break honestly.Non trinitarianism and being wicked are absolutely different things.According to the gospel ...those that deny that CHirs came in the flesh and died for their sins is an antichrist and ALL NON TRINITARIAN GROUPS DONT DENY THAT.So it doesn't matter much to me if you are trinitarian modalist sabelenist or a pokemon.Same implications.
3 years ago Report
1
Campion
(Post deleted by Apokalupto 3 years ago)
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Jesus very much did teach faith in the trinity.

1John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. <---

1John 2:23  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 

God is real: "god didn't blame the jews for trusting only in the father right.Give me a break man."

God is real, you bear false witness.

John 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

You don't get a break and neither do the Jews or anyone else. John actually taught the exact opposite in his epistle of what you are saying. If you deny the Son the same does not have the Father. THE JEWS DENY TH SON. And Jesus said the same thing in John 8:19 posted above.

John 8:42  Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 

Jesus constantly taught the Trinity. And you make God a liar. You are lying, too.

John 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
John 5:32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.


You need to get on Gods program.

3 years ago Report
1
God is real
God is real: you are arguing completely different topics XP.The problem was to recognize jesus was the logos of the father not how this was to be understood.THEY ALSO didn't consider the holy spirit DIVINE.so literally you have no case there.Also as Campion pointed...you are arguing 4th century understanding of certain scriptures that's all...Literally as I said the best position nn my opinion is to NOT KNOW WHAT THE HECK IS the relationship between Christ FATHER and the spirit.Simple as that.You can claim trinitarianism describes it and thast fine but to argue we are heretics or misinterpreting scripture is ridiculous since all you do is point to 4th century understanding that's all
3 years ago Report
0
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: You reject the Bible, that much is clear, and you make God a liar. You are obviously a heretic. I have posted scriptures that directly show that your words are verifiably false.

1. Jesus did indeed teach that unless they (The Jews) believed in Him, then they did not know the Father.
2. John taught that if you did not have the Son neither do you have the Father.
3. Jesus came from the "bosom" of the Father but did not come FROM HIMSELF, by definition there are two persons being spoken of.
4. Jesus did not bear witness of himself, if he only bore witness of himself his witness is not true. By definition there are two persons being spoken of.
5. Jesus taught that there is more than one witness, and His Father bore witness of him.
6. Jesus taught the the Holy Spirit testified of him.
7. There are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit and these three are one.

8. Gir you reject the God of the Bible and the words of Jesus Christ and teach the doctrines of man.
3 years ago Report
1
God is real
God is real: most points your raise deal with post material creation where you can distinct things.Where in the pre incarnate chrsit can you make a difference between the father and chrsit ? Also provide reference for 3.Point 2 has to deal with accepting Christ ...not accepting how he relates to the father.He said believe in my for my miracles.So technically even if you don't understand that he was divine member of anything ...his miracles would show it
3 years ago Report
0
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 
John 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God. 

You can't be "with" something else unless there are more than one object being spoken of.

And don't tell me that the Father and the Word are both the Father or the same person. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; NEITHER CAME I OF MYSELF, but he sent me. -John 8:42

Ive already provided scriptures for point 2 and 3.

You need to get on Gods program and believe what He says.
3 years ago Report
1
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Genesis 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
3 years ago Report
1
God is real
God is real: the problem with your understanding is that in the old testament we clearly see the son doing things who are ascribed to the father as in the story of Sodom(calling fire from the lord) and walking in the garden of eden as well as blessing some people.So the bible doesn't take issue to ascribe actions of the son or the spirit ot the father yet trinitarians argue one doesn't do the functions of the other. For genesis 1 26.That can be spoken between trinitynity but also to the angels who knows.And as I said I don't believe either modalism or trinity so when you tell me who did god spoke to ...I can say the rest 2 sure but I would argue the word personality isn't applicable
3 years ago Report
0
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: The Trinity is not taught in the OT, it's a New Testament doctrine. You're squirming and avoiding Jesus teaching that he was sent from the Father and did not come from himself, and the host of the other scriptures which you ignore because you do not want to believe His word.

It can't be speaking of the angels, what do you mean who knows? People who read and know their bibles, that's who, why don't you read the next verse and educate yourself with knowledge instead of rejecting knowledge and teaching its not about knowledge. Man was not made in the image of angels, that's absurd. Genesis 1:27  So "God" created man in his own image, "in the image of God" created he him; male and female created he them. 

Genesis expressly says man is created in Gods image, and God spoke in the plural. There can't be any angels present in this equation.

Again the OT does not teach the doctrine of the Trinity, its a NT doctrine. You asked for per-incarnate examples. John 1:1 and Genesis 1:26-27
3 years ago Report
1
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: In the OT often the Father and the Son share names, even the tetragrammaton, one good example is Genesis 18 the LORD (tetragrammaton) appeared to Abraham.

3 years ago Report
1
Campion
(Post deleted by Apokalupto 3 years ago)
zeffur
zeffur: An easy analogy to understand the plurality of God is to consider an egg with 3 yolks inside its shell. The egg is one, yet it has 3 distinct yolks that are all part of the egg.

Likewise, the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit are 3 with one unified essence/intent/purpose.
(Edited by zeffur)
3 years ago Report
0
Page: 1234