Once saved always saved?

HydroMan: According to the New Testament, there are passages that suggest that a person cannot lose their salvation once they place their faith in Christ (if you can lose your salvation, then it would imply that a person can be part of God's Family, and then later be kicked out, or receive a new life, and have it taken away)

But there are also passages that suggest that salvation is not secure (if a person doesn't repent, they will perish, thus suggesting a person must continually do something in order to keep their salvation)

I know a lot of Christians struggle with this topic and debate over it. So I would like to hear what people think and how they reconcile these issues

TheDoctor394: I sent you a reply to this, Hydro, but I'll also post it here. :-)

I don't believe someone can lose their salvation. There can be parts of scripture which can support or come against such a view, but I cannot get past 2 Corinthians 1: 21, 22: "Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."

A guarantee is a certainty. It's no doubt at all. It's a done deal. I don't see how else that can be interpreted other than to say that we can be assured of our salvation once we are saved.

In regards to those who are saved but refuse to repent, surely those people aren't saved in the first place. There are certain fruits which come naturally from salvation, and repentance is one of those things, along with actually turning away from regular sins. Everyone continues to sin in general before we go to Heaven, but a persistent practice in a particular sin, with no shame or view that it is wrong in any way, is evidence to me that they are not saved in the first place, which I think is what the book of James talks about.

Blackshoes: You're 100 percent correct. Both are strongly suggested within scripture
I suppose we'll see soon enough
Only one way to Heaven that's through Jesus Christ. It's clear that not everyone who says lord lord, that day will enter through the pearly gates

Zanjan: Hydro, it's definitly possible to lose paradise - the Bible is full of accounts of those who did, starting with Genesis.

Salvation is the ability to see and understand; when you do, you'll abandon sinful ways to live a God-centered life. Knowing how to love, you'll be a happy, contented soul, growing in virtue and expanding in service, while attracting God's good pleasure and protection.

This is His divine promise fulfilled on earth. It works under one condition:

Every relationship requires tending. Once you believe, you make a commitment to follow and obey Him - it's called the Covenant. If you fail to keep it, all bets are off and whatever you've gained is taken from you. Remember the fig tree.

Blackshoes: Not true Zanjan! The Bible nor did anyone ever state where anyone living ends up.

Only once did Jesus even suggest that Judas end was hell. Yet he also clearly stated that Judas was never saved and he was destined to hell from the get-go!

Zanjan: You don't appear to be as well-studied as you portray. Jesus said quite plainly who would perish - those who weren't "born again". It was not enough to believe, not enough to do good works. You had to make the transformation.

Jesus never said Judas was destined to hell - everybody has to go through hell before they can even get close to those pearly gates. Judas was no exception. Jesus chose Judas to walk with Him right from the beginning. That was an immeasurable honour.

Jesus and ALL 12 disciples were predestined to die violently. Thus, they did.

Blackshoes: Zan I said he strongly suggested what happen to Judas!

OMG You have no clue and then have the nerve to condemn the facts.

Acts

1:25. That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship,
from which Judas by transgression fell,
that he might go to his own place.

Heaven and Hell is a real physical place whether you accept that or not is between you and God.

It doesn't matter to me whether you know any better .However when you twist scripture because you know nothing about it is a causes me to correct you

Zanjan: Everybody has a place. God can move anyone around to where He wants them to be anytime He desires whether they're willing or not. ALL are His servants.

Judas was a disciple because he was fit to be one. He never became an Apostle but he still retained an important place in both secular and religious history. There's not a single person who doesnt know his name. How many Christians became Apostles since Jesus died? Two.

Blackshoes: John 6:70-71

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

Devils do not go to Heaven.Their place is to Burn in Hell forever and ever

Zanjan: Who are you to name names when Jesus refused to do that? Who are you to say who He meant?

Who was Jesus responding to when He said "Satan, get behind me?" Hint:, it wasn't Judas.

God can command the devil to leave any individual. Didn't Jesus do the same?

Blackshoes: Again you are either twisting the scripture or misunderstanding the simple English translations

It's as clear as the light of day

"YET ONE OF YOU IS A DEVIL "


John 6:70-71

70 Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” 71 (He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, who, though one of the Twelve, was later to betray him.)

Zanjan: Excuse me, it wasn't YOU who said -> (verse 71) " He was speaking about Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. For although Judas was one of the Twelve, he was later to betray Jesus.…"

The writer (who doesn't identify himself) was saying this in hindsight. It's not a live account so I'd question if the writer was even present at the time. He was interpreting what Jesus said - to no one did Jesus give that right.

If you believe Jesus is God, who would you be to interpret God for everyone else?

I mean, you've never seen me quote YOU, then saying "Blackshoes meant this>>>>XXXX". Why do you think that is? Could it be..........respect???

I don't care who wrote that but whoever did shouldn't have. An honest account of history doesn't include personal opinion but if it did, the writer would identify whose opinion it was.

As you can see, I'm not one who can be easily misled.

Blackshoes: Now you're just excusing yourself for twisting the scripture
It says" what It says! It's as clear as day that Jesus called Judas a devil! Throughout the entire New Testament, those that do not repent and do not accept Jesus's resurrection and continue as devils do not enter the kingdom of God neither here on earth nor in Heaven.

It's fair to say that Jesus never condemned anyone to Hell. However: Jesus did warn all those that reject God Grace through faith in him, don't go to heaven

Zanjan: Judas genuinely regretted what he had done *before* he returned to Jerusalem, before that same night was over - what changed? What do you think repentance is?

Unlike Peter, Judas never denied Jesus. That very same night, Peter denied Jesus 3 times. Also, Judas didn't live long enough to see Christ's crucifixion or the resurrection. Have you not been following the story?

How many Christians have ever pondered why Judas kissed Jesus, rather than pointing Him out? You know, you should think about historical accounts.

Blackshoes: Judas took his own life. That's not true repentance, True repentance brings trust in God. Judas was feeling sorry for himself, believing he's in control. He was always well aware of God's commandments, Thou shall not kill. Killing yourself is the sin of sins Even, in the end, Judas heard only the devil's voice. The devil wants us all dead and in disobedience to God's will.

Zanjan: Did the priests repent? People with a conscience repent. Nobody doffs themselves for no reason.

"True repentance brings trust in God."

Rubbish. You either trust God or you don't.

People repent because they want to get back into God's good graces - they want to go to heaven. Being 'sorry' isn't good enough; one has to rectify the wrong they did. If one had truly repented, they'd have done that.

In Judas's case, it was impossible to make full restitution. So, he did the only two things he could to show his remorse - he threw back the silver coins at the priests, then punished himself. He couldn't live without trying to make amends.

Perhaps you forget that Jesus told Judas to do it. So, Judas obeyed.

You do NOT know what happened to him after he left this world. God said anything can be forgiven except disbelief in Himself. Judas didn't have that issue.

patrickhannon419: Do you know that Christ died for our sins as the gospel of your salvation?


Ephesians 1:13  In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 

They heard the word of truth, the gospel, and believed and were saved and sealed.

The apostle Paul recieved the gospel from Christ.

Galatians 1:11  But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 
12  For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Here is the gospel you need to believe to be saved.

1Corinthians 15:3  For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 
4  And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 

Some day Christ will come to this earth, He will not come to bring peace as some teach.

2Thessalonians 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 
9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 

God in His mercy took your sins and mine on Himself. He loved us and wants all men to be saved.


I am not part of any religious group or organization, but have come to knowing and believing the gospel giving to Paul for the salvation of my soul.

Blackshoes: Well Zanjan You may believe Judas Is In heaven? I do not', nor did the apostles according to God Word he went to his own place! Unless you have more information or consider yourself wiser than the apostles.
I don't see how you can make such assumptions.

Zanjan: I don't know where Judas is, only where he was so long ago. It's not mine to judge the souls of men nor my own, like the heartless and prideful do. God puts everybody in their own place.

Jesus chose Judas with a particular purpose in mind; none of the others could do what Judas was able to do. When the time comes, God calls in His marks. Judas knew he wasnt like the others.

Perhaps he thought he was the more trusted/favoured because Jesus had appointed him treasurer. We don't know what was going through his mind but any further special appointment should not have been taken for granted.

Personally, I'm guessing that Judas may have thought he was serving the Will of God. If he thought that, he was not mistaken. It just didn't turn out the way he imagined.

Fractured fairy tale: Oh Here we go more American argue to you Drop . Just like Evolution.
Seems Some think OSAS is true and Condem everyone to hell that disagrees with them .must be friends with Credlo Dollar . Send me your money

Blackshoes: LOL

Fractured fairy tale: Gee thats a Intelligent response thanks for that

Fractured fairy tale: Unless of Coarse your Saying Credlo A Dollar . Can never loose his Salvation.
What about Jole Olsen .
Where are they During this Pandemic
Skipped town in there Private Jets

Blackshoes: Here the most intelligent way I can respond to YOU fairy tale ! You'll see soon enough!

Fractured fairy tale: Oh yeah Cos your Chosen . Its up to you to do the Condemming Isnt It .
Condem everyone that Doesn't fit in with your Leagilism .
Pitty you never show the heathens the Grace and Mercy . You were once Shown
Or Didn't you recive Any I donno

Zanjan: That's a good question - Shoes, were you born and raised in Christianity or did you convert at a ripe old age? I'd like to hear your story.