Pascal's Wager is a fallacy. Change my mind. (Page 5)

If the stars fell
If the stars fell: lol sigh...
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If the stars fell
If the stars fell: if only you could see yourself from an outside perspective
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zeffur
zeffur: I could pretend that God doesn't exist--you know, like you do, but that wouldn't make it true.
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zeffur
zeffur: I know the choices that I have & I know the decisions that I've made regarding those choices. You do too, so why are you pretending that if I don't choose to disbelieve in God that I don't really have a choice or that I don't really have free will?

It isn't about whether or not I can reject God complete--because I could if I decided to do so--but, I wouldn't do so because the alternative is far inferior--which is the reason I would apply my free will to continue to accept God.
(Edited by zeffur)
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If the stars fell
If the stars fell: it is the illusion of choice, it is not actually a choice... you cannot choose to stop believing in god for two minutes, just like i cant choose to believe something that hasnt met my burden of proof.... which makes it a false choice as its presented as an exclusively partisan choice when its not only NOT a bipartisan choice... its not even the only two possible outcomes. Which makes it a false dichotomy

it really has nothing to do with whether or not god actually exists or not.... you are missing the point... as per usual
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zeffur
zeffur: re; "If the stars fell: it is the illusion of choice, it is not actually a choice..."

Untrue--it is an actual choice that anyone can make.

re: "you cannot choose to stop believing in god for two minutes,"

I could decided to reject God for 2 minutes & do what is against God's will. I could also decide to reject God forever, if that is what I wanted to do. It is always an option.

re: "..just like i cant choose to believe something that hasnt met my burden of proof...."

Actually, you could decide to accept the available evidence for God's existence--because it does in fact exist & you could also decided to align your thoughts & ways with God's will for mankind. The only thing preventing you from making those decision is YOU--which you can control as you want.

re: "that decision which makes it a false choice"

It is quite obviously a real choice--you pretending otherwise, doesn't make it false.

re: "...its not even the only two possible outcomes. Which makes it a false dichotomy"

God either exists or He doesn't exist--it's a pretty simple concept. You can decide to accept/reject God in either case. There is no evidence that reincarnation is true--so you have no basis to consider that as a valid option.

re: "it really has nothing to do with whether or not god actually exists or not.... you are missing the point... as per usual"

The point is that you aren't being logical or honest. You most definitely can decide to accept/reject God. It's a perfectly valid choice--people do it every day.
(Edited by zeffur)
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If the stars fell
If the stars fell: and people wonder why you get silenced lol you are literally proving my prior point right now
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zeffur
zeffur: Pff.. I never get silenced. I silence people like you who are not honest.
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AretoNyx
AretoNyx: How do explain Jim Jones faith healing and crying statues in churches? Does talking in tongues do it or a billion bucks donated in prayer?
Not even what we are talking about here. So it may help you choose whatever you wish to believe...not what we are talking about here. Sure keep talking I guess at least your god is listening in.
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MJ59
MJ59: Religion sure is fun!
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zeffur
zeffur: I'm typing about logic & truth. Why are you trying to bring religion into the discussion?

If the stars fell is trying to illogically claim that a choice to accept/reject God is invalid because he implies that God doesn't exist. He then spins to it's a false dichotomy because he pretends there are other options (e.g. reincarnation) so it isn't 'really' a binary choice--even though there is no proof that reincarnation is true. It's just simple disingenous arguing, imo. He didn't invent it & he doesn't even do a very good job of applying it, imo. He knows God exists--there is plenty of evidence. He just rejects God. It's really that simple.
(Edited by zeffur)
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MJ59
MJ59: Well that was religion lol
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zeffur
zeffur: Not really.
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If the stars fell
If the stars fell: there is no evidence that heaven exists, no evidence that hell exists, no evidence that god exists... there is however evidence that the universe is deterministic, and what you consider to be a choice is actually just an illusion lol
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If the stars fell
If the stars fell: and yes, 1 god exists and no god exists is indeed a false dichotomy lol
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AretoNyx
AretoNyx: How about asking him instead of me directly but I guess being condescending and off topic is a new way to convert people? Guess it does not take genius to have a god answer the riddled Pascal Wager of many competing monotheistic religions, but humans will play gods and say all sorts of things speaking for whatever ones. Some church leaders make money prosperity gospel or cult ...some not as much perhaps. I hear it is a good profession to get a private jet and mansion on earth.
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AretoNyx
AretoNyx: Burden of proof is on all the theists of so many sects to work it out , but some call each other atheists even though that is not " true". Though guess the easiest thing is to blame demons, devils, and atheists for some instead of show responsibility at such. Even so glad some cherry pick good parts instead of just make only excuses to harm others and then blame gods they choose.

Religion can be a fun read for sure of drama and such history up to present day. Well as long as it is not to repetitive and goes dragging the boring parts.
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zeffur
zeffur: re: "If the stars fell: there is no evidence that heaven exists, no evidence that hell exists, no evidence that god exists..."

Details related to God's existence: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existence_of_God
+ Near death experiences.

re: "... there is however evidence that the universe is deterministic, and what you consider to be a choice is actually just an illusion lol

Given that God is the only rational explanation for the universe & all life in it--the choice isn't an illusion--you just try to use that claim as an excuse to reject God. It's not a new strategy.

re: "and yes, 1 god exists and no god exists is indeed a false dichotomy lol"

You keep telling yourself that, sunshine--it only adds to your other delusions...
(Edited by zeffur)
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AretoNyx
AretoNyx: Thanks for also posting a link showing also arguments of both existences of gods and non-existent reasons. Cherry picking info from the internet is nice just like any human made book deemed holy made by any god. It is entertaining to some extent.
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If the stars fell
If the stars fell: zeff is a dumb, trying to reason with him is a waste of time, prove me wrong
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AretoNyx
AretoNyx: I do not try to reason. Though some days he is nicer like any other human. I do not care if people are theists or nontheists personally.
Though my mind has not been changed on being a nontheist.
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If the stars fell
If the stars fell: i suspect zeff didnt actually read the wikipedia page he posted.... because all it does is make bald assertions with no actual evidence... arguably it makes a better case for the absence of god than it does for the presence of one lol
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zeffur
zeffur: That was the intellectual version for you to chomp on & digest.

I've already described sufficent evidence for God's existence (Israel's existence, The Bible, Jesus' existence, the establishment of Christianity based on Jesus' miracles, resurrection, & ascension into heaven, near death testimonials, etc.).
(Edited by zeffur)
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If the stars fell
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If the stars fell
If the stars fell: by that metric all religions are true
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