Divinity Of Jesus Christ? Who Said? Who didn't? (Page 7)

Apokalupto: there's always something to learn about yourself.
and the scriptures are like a mirror, and for the honest heart they really reveal what kind of fruit is growing inside of you, and if there is no honest heart, there is no reveal either. the heart is able to wear many blindfolds.

amoregrowers: Good words!!! Best thing you have said so far!

Apokalupto: every heart even the most dark have a shred of ability to look inward when they look at the scriptures which are a mirror that reveal the truth about the fruit within. only reprobates can't do that.

Apokalupto: the word of God sheds light on the darkness of our own hearts. the word is light and it is truth.

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amoregrowers: XP

Very interesting and from what I see extremely debated even among Christian scholors.

Simply due to the fact that Paul is not consistent in the rest of his corpus calling Jesus the Tetragrammaton.

So hypothetically if the Tetragrammaton took human form that would negate other scripture.

Is Paul a Jew? Is he more authoritative then Jesus or the Torah?

Your looking to validate your theology which is a good thing. We all want to be certain of what we believe. But what if it doesn't add up? What do you do then? Throw it away? Dig for truth?

I said Jesus if a Child of Israel, a judge/rabbi, an angel could technically be called Elohim (God)

And Hashem is called Elohim.

This is when G-d uses a person or himself to administer Justice.


Hashem can create a vision in a man and take a form


This is what some random guy on internet said

G-d does not exist inside some framework of existence, like our bodies exist in spacetime. Rather, He is the existence and also the framework of existence of everything. Both things simultaneously. Hence there cannot be anything or anywhere devoid of Him. A body implies some kind of "place" where He is and another place where He is not and this is impossible

Apokalupto: I'm seeking to validate my religion? your response tells me you don't know better. you brought up the issue with hashem, you wanted Christians to give you an answer, and I'm here obliging you, the truth is that you seek to invalidate something that's been validated for 2000 years. no need to flip it on me because you're losing badly. I shed light on the scriptures, you guys do not.

Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name Jehovah was I not known to them.

Genesis 13:4 Unto the place of the altar, which he had made there at the first: and there Abram called on the name of the LORD.

scripture is a witness that you do not have to actually call upon the tetragrammaton itself in order to call upon the same God of the tetragrammaton.

Romans 10:9 -13 is the exact same thing, except it says specifically if we call upon the name the Lord Jesus for salvation, then we shall be delivered as Joel 2:32 has said.

Acts 4:12
“Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”

Apokalupto: this is not how Christians traditionally show Jesus Christ divinity, if you want to know about his divinity I would use totally different scriptures, but you mentioned the name and so I'm showing you, that is all.

""Simply due to the fact that Paul is not consistent in the rest of his corpus calling Jesus the Tetragrammaton.""-Amore

okay, but I asked you if I could show you a verse using the tetragrammaton applied to Jesus would you accept it and you said yes go ahead. "a verse" is singular, and you accepted that.

I don't think you have to demonstrate something more than once in order for the first time to be true, and as far as between me and you, you accepted that I only needed to show you one instance.

amoregrowers: Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered

Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Romans 10:13
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." 

Peter quotes Joel in acts
Paul quotes Joel in romans 10:13
Paul DOES NOT quote Joel in 10:9

So your not being honest saying 10:9 is a quote of Joel.


But now you have a larger problem. Matthew quotes Jesus

Matt 7:21
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”


Matt quote of Jesus seems to contradict what you are saying.

Jesus says NOT everyone that calls me Lord shall be saved.

But he does clarify.


But everyone who does the will of father which is Hashem will be saved. This would be in alignment with Joel Peter and Paul in 10:13

And the hebrew for Jesus is Yeshua which litrally is YHVH is salvation!


So not sure how you draw your conclusions, but your obviously wrong that Jesus is Hashem/Tetragrammaton


So as a Jew. If he said do the will of the Father. What might that be? Give you a hint.... TORAH

Apokalupto: I am not being dishonest. you have twisted the scriptures and my own words. do not be alarmed I'm not attacking you. allow me to explain so that you have no excuse anymore.

I'm going to requote my post that I sent in this thread to you in response to this very question. reread what I said.

"Romans 10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

especially verse 13 is applied to calling on the name of the Lord Jesus.

reread the New testament verses with this in mind, the word "for" is middle English meaning "because." "For" is a conjunction, that means all of these verses are connected."

so in actuality, I posted the scriptures that are in context with the verse that's applied to Jesus. the word "for" is a conjunction it means because, therefore they are all connected. if I were to post you just the one verse that I said especially applies to Jesus in verse 13 it would make absolutely no sense because I would be taking Paul's logical progression out of context and I would break the grammar of the passage and would become meaningless. if I did that then I would truly be twisting scripture and be dishonest. I didn't do that you did.

so the question remains, why are you twisting the scriptures and my own words? did I not explain this to you? did you not read the passage for yourself and see the conjunctions?

pay attention. I asked you if I could quote a verse in the Old Testament that uses the Tetragrammaton that the New Testament applies to Jesus, would you accept it? this has well been answered and you have well avoided it, other interpretations in Matthew play no part on whether or not I actually quoted you what I said I would. you're attempting to bring in the salvation argument to distract from the fact that I did exactly what I said I would.

I did exactly what I said I would, but you have avoided doing what you said that you would do.

Apokalupto: I gave your post a thumbs down because you were dishonest in your discussion with me.

DontNeedChrist:

A thumbs down amore. Will you ever recover?

Apokalupto: he's most likely okay, but that's the problem isn't it? being okay with the darkness that's inside of you regardless of what the word of God, the light and truth has clearly said. twisting scripture and people's words and being dishonest is not right, it's not okay. you have no shame either, you are a fraud and a proven charlatan right here Topic: Religion

DontNeedChrist:

You complain about name calling then go on a name calling rant complete with Miriam Webster definitions and synonyms. Look up baffoon to see your photo.

amoregrowers: DNC I must be over the target... lol

A Jew ... when The Messiah comes. Will not worship the Messiah. They will praise Hashem!!!

The job of Messiah according to Judaism is to realign the world to Torah. In turn that will bring peace harmony resurrection and immortality. This renewing of nature and man is the great Sabbath.


I have not twisted scripture. I quoted scripture. You twited scripture by implying Romans 10:9 was Joel quoted. It clearly is not Joel or Peter would have exact same words as paul, and Jesus would not advise people to obey the will of Hashem.

You have fell into error. You have been decieved by denying and distancing yourself from Jews, Torah, and ultimately G-d.

You have fallen out of harmony with the creator as Daniel said would happen by

Changing the calander to a solar calander instead of lunar

Rejecting Torah

Eating Non Kosher

Not observing sabbath

Not celebrating festivals as designed by G-d and adding new pagan festivals Christmas and Easter
Confusing and blocking people from the gates of heaven.

Improperly using the Name

Rejecting the Oral Tradition

The very first sin was eating non kosher food as commanded by oral tradition!!!!


Shall I go on. You have fallen or the trick of satan and you are anti messiah!!!!

Your theology is useless because it rejects Torah as "fulfilled" even though that explicitly didnt happen. Someone said not one dot of Torah would disappear.

You call others blind and reprobate, are you looking in a mirror.

Lucky for all of us G-d is merciful and is waiting for us to turn from idolatry and sin and follow him.


Jeremiah 51:45

My people, go ye out of the midst of her, and deliver ye every man his soul from the fierce anger of the LORD.

Shalom

Apokalupto: another thumbs down for you lovegrowers. what a shame.

DontNeedChrist:

Awww. He ignored your well thought out response and gave you a thumbs down. This illustrates his priorities. Thumbs over knowledge. LOL!

Apokalupto: @lovegrowers

"especially verse 13 is applied to calling on the name of the Lord Jesus."

reason why it says especially verse 13 is because verse 13 is the actual direct quote, but that it is impossible to ignore verses 12, 11, 10, and 9 because they they are the direct context of the passage, each verse is directly connected with a conjunction.

so instead of letting you pass on playing semantical games, I will inform you on how my words were intended to be understood:

verse 13 is the direct quote from Joel in the KJV. the verses that directly come before verse 13, verse 12, 11, 10, 9 all go together because it's a logical progression, each verse beginning with a conjunction.


Apostle Paul applies the Tetragrammaton to Jesus Christ

Romans 10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

verse 13 is the direct quote of Joel in the KJV.

the beginning of verse 13 says "For" which is that older English meaning "because", that is a conjunction which directly ties in and connects the verse before it, therefore each verse is connected all the way up to verse 9. deciding that these are not conjunctions destroys the grammar of the passage and thus takes away its meaning and anyone that says otherwise is trying to hoodwink you.

I apologize for the confusion.

Apokalupto: Paul applies the Tetragrammaton to Jesus Christ. I have sufficiently proven my point and fully furnished objective facts to back it up. Amore whenever you are ready to own up to your words, I'm waiting.