Can Oral traditions of man supercede Gods Holy Scriptures? (Page 5)

butttler: dnc---- your evaluation how the New Testament was written is completely "inaccurate and plain wrong"....scripture was written NOT through oral tradition...but....2 Pet 1:20-21.

."20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

in other words dnc...the NT was direct Revelation from God to man.....not transmitted through oral tradition from man to man

butttler: dnc you stated ...."We do not contradict the written scriptures and you cannot even show evidence"....again dnc we showed word for word evidence where Talmud and talmud scholars you posted...contradict Gods Holy word terribly ..blasphemous-ly..i will post in next paragraph

butttler: dnc--- cont from previous post---

bava metzia 59b..part of Talmud

Gemara relates: Years after, Rabbi Natan encountered Elijah the prophet and said to him: What did the Holy One, Blessed be He, do at that time, when Rabbi Yehoshua issued his declaration? Elijah said to him: The Holy One, Blessed be He, smiled and said: My children have triumphed over Me; My children have triumphed over Me.

NO where in Gods Holy Scriptures does sinful man ever triumph over God..EVER

if it could ever occur even once then God would NOT be All-powerful , ..But

we know God is All-powerful ...

also where you state that the Rabbi sages are the ones that interpret Gods Holy Word
is another blasphemous contradiction

God says in 2 Pet 1:20 "there is no private interpretation of scripture"...meaning man is not the ones that interpret Gods word...

2 Pet. 2:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Gods Holy Word and its meaning all come from God ...Not from man

dnc these are only 2 contradictions of many........but very serious contradictions

Apokalupto: Butler, every time he has ever used the Oral to prove his point (which was only because the scriptures glorified Jesus) the Oral contradicted the Bible, it never shed light on anything it made things worse and if one accepted that point of view there would be more questions and more issues to fix and inevitably there were contradictions, one of which made God a liar, but instead of using the Oral to interpret, Jesus it made perfect sense. The Oral Traditions often time seem to rend the scriptures, they cut it to pieces, being doctors of the law, they hack and slice with a cleaver and add things to His holy word, the continuity and consistency that runs through the whole Bible from A to Z is removed and a veil is put over the Tanak, the veil of the Oral Traditions.

Zanjan: For that very reason, Christianity moved to adopt "Scripture Only". Yet no matter how many times they reminded themselves of that, they still followed the opinions of the clergy.

Thankfully, my religion is too young to have any traditions whatsoever and it's not likely it ever will have any because it's a New Order. There are express writings to separate culture from religion. Both are important but should never become entangled as they did in the past.

God has forbidden us to interpret scripture, any scripture. This is a Law. For some, it's a difficult thing to learn but we're here to help each other understand how its to be done.

Zanjan: How shall it be done? It begins by separating actual scripture from the writings of followers, and with the understanding that the meaning derived from God's Word is strictly between the individual and God.

So, we can share what the writings mean to us, but never insist that this is what it should mean to others. That would be over-stepping our place.

Emma McGann: If you read the bible read it carefully and after read it again, you will see that it is the most blown up fairytale ever written. Romans were like pagans and believed in every god possible so how would it been able there were Jews because in that time there were none known religions except paganism or heathens and in Paganism people had faith in good and evil gods only later it evolved and separated into different religions because people said their religion was the righteous one, crusaders, ottoman fighters, etc... one by one people which fought in name of a god while a commandment was "Thou shall not kill" only they murdered and slaughtered to show they were powerful and to fear them but what does it have to do with religion?

Humans started with those stories to scare others and control them because if they wouldn't listen God would punish them bringing Choas while 1 of his rules was Thou shall not kill so did that only count for humans, or couldn't people follow anymore going up in their fairytales because it is a very weird story?

Jesus had 12 apostles but if you read the bible it shows us he had 14 to 15 apostles so who were those 2 - 3 other persons they don't speak of and Jesus his favorite was Mary Magdelene so why do they hide she was simply his wife? Jesus was a man like each other having his needs and he forgave her all sin, 1st disciple, she was at his crucifying & there when he would have risen so weirdly if she wasn't his wife why was she always with him while the others weren't and who washed Jesus' feet?

Samael is Gods most powerful angel, Lucifer the most beautiful so how come Lucifer should be Satan while he was the most gorgeous of all angels and the light while Samael was the Angel of Death bringing chaos and had a sadistic love to rob others from their live so doesn't fit the title of Satan better with Samael? In the very first story of Creation, we Read Lilith was the very first woman but very disobeying towards Adam because she knew she was more powerful than Adam and refused to be submissive so she ran away. Samael got as a task to find her but fell in love on Lilith and made his angels make a deal with Lilith each child should wear an amulet with the name of the 2 or she would kill every child without any doubt on the most painful way, Lilith got banned because she hated men and loved to kill, Samael was the angel of death so the made her a demon which was Samaels wife and both the rulers of Hell but later it is like who is Lilith oh a Jewish Myth while it is a lie they won't have any demons in the bible and they won't show God his creations aren't perfectly disobeying him.

The seven princes of Heaven are fallen so it shows they didn't obey God's will: Raphael, Uriel, Gabriel, Michael, Sealtiel, Jehudiel, and Barachiel. (fallen angels) led by Satan

Samael is often accorded with Satan because he often has grim and destructive duties. He is often considered a fallen angel, like Satan and the chief of the evil spirits.

Samael is described as the "severity of God", and is listed as a fifth of the archangels of the world of Briah. Samael then became the consort of Adam's first wife, Lilith. Lilith is a demon created alongside Adam, originally created for the role Eve would fill.

Isaac described Samael and Lilith as a pair, being the central powers in the Emanation. Both Lilith and Samael in these stories are not principles of evil. Isaac discussed a sphere he called “third air” which is the source of both prophetic visions and “use” of demons. there are no dualistic or mythical elements; these were probably added by Isaac. Isaac formulated the myth of the evil worlds which were destroyed before this world was created, a myth that became a central motif in the kabbalah. Isaac who added the mythology and the dualism

DontNeedChrist:

Butttler, what you keep latching onto is NOT the Talmud. It is ONE COMMENTARY on ONE STORY within the Talmud. A story you’ve never bothered to ever read. You are free to disagree with it as other sages, scholars and rabbis also do. That’s right, many disagree with that commentary. That’s how commentary works. It’s not LAW, it’s COMMENTARY.

You have now complained about my claim of how the NT was compiled saying I’m completely wrong.

HOW DOES IT FEEL BUTTTLER?

How does it feel to read something you consider to be false? Doesn’t feel very good eh? That’s what I see from you with every post from you regarding the Talmud. You know nothing of the Talmud except ONE PERSON’S COMMENTARY OF ONE STORY. From a vast volume of endless books, you sum up the Talmud on a virtual microscopic slice. Pure and arrogant ignorance on your part. If I had a shekel for every time you brought up this one issue I would be a very rich man.

You have never read the story in Bava Metzia. You don’t know what it’s about and you completely miss the lessons we take from it. But that’s fine because it’s NOT FOR YOU! So give it a rest. You speak from utter ignorance.

DontNeedChrist:

From cover to cover, the Talmud is packed with wisdom and inspiration. Those that disparage and dismiss it without even setting eyes on it speak from abject ignorance.

“You cannot liken the self-taught man to the schooled.” - Talmud, Ketubot

“Hope for a miracle — but don’t depend on one.” - Talmud, Megillah 7b

“What is hateful to thee, never do to thy fellow man: that is the entire Torah; all the rest is commentary.” - Talmud, Shabbat 31a

“He who teaches a child is as if he had created it.” - Sanhedrin 19b

Zanjan: DNC: " It’s not LAW, it’s COMMENTARY."

Which Jews decided to turn into a tradition - that is, handed down generation to generation without questioning whether it was right or wrong, stupid or clever. Just shoveled it into the feeding trough.

Makes it look like regular Jews either never read the Torah or, their own opinion wasn't worth 2 hairs on a rat.

DontNeedChrist:

Coming from another who has never set eyes on the Talmud.

Zanjan: What a short memory you have! I've read a lot of entries in the Talmud. Like any other bad book, there's no need to finish reading it. The Hadith is another one that falls into that catagory.


"From cover to cover, the Talmud is packed with wisdom and inspiration."

I'll be the judge of that. From much of what I've seen there, it's an eyeroller. The rest looks like it's written by a 10 year old child. To be fair though, I'm not from the Iron Age.

By the way, the Golden Rule didn't come from man - it was from Krishna, a Prophet of God long before Abraham, and it's been repeated in every scripture since then. Geeze, give credit where its due!

DontNeedChrist:

“A lot of entries” is not tantamount to a lifetime of study. I would give credit but you’ve hardly earned it.

And why do non-Jews care what we study, what we consider the Word of G-d or G-d inspired? Disagree with it? Fine. Just let the obsession go already.

Fractured fairy tale: Well America has already signed into law
That .Anti semitism .Is a Crime that can be Punished. And according to Judaism and the Sanhedren Rabbies . Following the teachings of Jesus Christ . Is Idolatry
To say god had a Son .

These Laws arnt being Enforced yet But theres ever Increasing Pressure from Isreal To start Enforcing them

Its like On here I mention Judaism. Or Isreal. And Im Hammered with Accusations of Anti Semetism and Hate.

Nothing to do with Hate .

Fractured fairy tale: Correct me if Im Wrong DNC but arnt the Rabbies In Isreal The Keepers of the LAW

Zanjan: " is not tantamount to a lifetime of study."

One shouldn't devote themselves to a lifetime of studying ridiculous notions, the impractical, or or the obvious. You only have one lifetime - shame to waste it on that.

I've used mine to study ALL the world's scriptures. That has given me something with which to compare.

Fractured fairy tale: Well you lived in a Blessed time
Would you of been able to do that .if anything than what the Rabbies decreed was a Crime Punishable by jail whatever
The punishment they decide fits the Crime

Any way Don't worry me I will got to Jail whatever

DontNeedChrist:

FFT, “the RABBIS in Israel” are not the keepers of the Law. The nation of Israel, the Jewish people are the keepers of the Law. Non-Jews were given the Noachide Laws which are found in the Torah. G-d gave the Law to Israel and Israel has the obligation to fulfill it, teach it and guard it each and every day. ALL of mankind is the keeper of the Law from one degree to another.

BTW, there is no such word as rabbies.

DontNeedChrist:
“One shouldn't devote themselves to a lifetime of studying ridiculous notions, the impractical, or the obvious.” - zanjan

That is nothing more than your opinion which you are entitled to.

Zanjan: Thanks for the tip

Apokalupto: The following are some statements from a religion.

Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
When in another's home, show them respect or else do not go there.
Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
Do not harm little children.

Here are some things that they say you should avoid:
Stupidity
Pretentiousness
Solipsism
Self-deceit
Herd Conformity
Lack of Perspective
Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies
Counterproductive Pride
Lack of Aesthetics

According to these, it sounds like they have some good advice and some good statements.
























































































Where do these statements and ideas come from?

LaVeyan Satanism

Being able to provide positive ideas and words does not automagically prove the whole is good.
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The Topic: Can Oral traditions of man supercede Gods Holy Scriptures?

Can they? Biblically speaking nothing can.

But that didn't stop the Oral Traditions both trying to supersede and contradict the scriptures. Whether intentionally or unintentionally is besides the point.

Zanjan: "Being able to provide positive ideas and words does not automagically prove the whole is good."

Good point. People borrow whatever sounds good to them - they don't usually internalize these. Consequently, tests and trials are required to sort that out.

Zanjan: That reminds me of the vision in Revelations where he took the *little* book and had to EAT it (tasted sweet in his mouth) then swallow it (was bitter in his belly).