Can Oral traditions of man supercede Gods Holy Scriptures? (Page 3)

Apokalupto: Except for the root for Nazareth in Hebrew is netzer, branch, which the prophets said His name is.

Apokalupto: Minus the vowels

DontNeedChrist:

No. DO NOT twist my words. G-d gives authority to man to interpret and mete out justice in the court system. YOU added the word contradiction. There is no contradiction. Get real.

Apokalupto: I didn't twist your words. I said "The scriptures never give authority to anyone, priest or not, to contradict what God has said in the Bible, that's the issue. "

Your very next reply was "they do"

DontNeedChrist:

We do not contradict the written scriptures and you cannot even show evidence. You play word and gotcha games. Sorry, not playing

amoregrowers: Strongs 3478 that is not what it means

DontNeedChrist:
The Talmud has taken enough abuse here. Time to turn the tables.

The NT is virtually ALL oral tradition. Were jesus’ words recorded firsthand?

NO.

Did jesus write anything himself?

NO.

The gospel authors were anonymous and not his contemporaries. The conflicting accounts of his birth, life, death and so-called resurrection were written decades after his death. There was certainly an oral transmission form the time he supposedly walked the earth to the time events were documented.

The NT is an oral transmission that was eventually put in writing.

Judaism knows who wrote each book, when it was written, and was written simultaneously with the events it documents. There is no comparison to the credibility of the Torah/Tanach.

Using the words of your man/god that was written decades after his death (maybe questionable he even uttered them), “he who casts the first stone....etc., etc.”

butttler: dnc...you will claim abuse ...but we only posted words you said dnc....you are the one who posted in agreement from your own talmudic scholar who you highly agreed with...that it was the will of God that rabbinic sages who determine what is truth in torah even at Gods objections....these are your words you posted in agreement with....please take ownership of your own actions and please stop deflecting and blameshifting...thank you

DontNeedChrist:

Twisted words.

DontNeedChrist:

Take ownership of the NT’s ORAL TRADITION. Respond to the points. Stop deflecting.

DontNeedChrist:

Notice when the tables are turned there you hear nothing but crickets.

Apokalupto: You're not making any sense at all. You don't even know what you're talking about on the NT, like Essence. The topic "Can Oral traditions of man supercede Gods Holy Scriptures?"

No one said there was anything inherently wrong with oral transmission, people orally transmit words and ideas every day. You’re adding to his words things he did not say as though he did, and that’s exactly where the problem arises, as the OP points out, when the oral traditions supersede the Holy Scriptures. Now scriptures are the written word and the word says explicitly in the law:

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

You have dodged every single thing that we have laid before you, side stepped, and, flipped the tables and parried. So much for a conversation and diplomacy. Give some take some. You haven't given us any answers as to our actual questions, no one asked about the right to "interpret.' So silly. If you can't answer the most basic straight forward questions, then you shouldn't expect anything from anyone else. And for the record, I have a thread on this topic of the gospels, no one has to take ownership if your lies about us, that's your job, you haven't taken ownership of the things you have said concerning the oral traditions. And btw, there was no "gotchya" moment, it never happened, you're so scared and defensive you're not very coherent.

Apokalupto: Correct me if i'm wrong but remember when DesperatelyNeedsChrist said that the reason why God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden was because they didn't repent "God wanted repentance" he said. This makes God a liar, because God had already foretold their doom if they decide to eat the fruit, "For in the day you eat you shall surely die" and this is why God kicked them out from the garden away from the tree of life "lest they should take of the tree of life and live forever" Not only does it make God a liar, it famously adds to Gods words and changes them.

See what happens when other things supersede Gods actual word?

DontNeedChrist:
Funny how you think making things up like saying I’ve dodged every question and lied gives you some sort of upper hand. Anyone can scroll up and see how I’ve addressed every single point and even used scriptural evidence to support my arguments.

I provided Torah passages that prove G-d not only expects but commands man to interpret, guard and determine laws BASED ON TORAH TENETS. Nothing is being added. This shows your great ignorance.

Yet we have an entire Greek/christian volume of books attached to the Tanach which not only renamed it to “the Bible” but it rearranged the order of the books and mistranslated it. And you accuse us of adding. The irony is astounding.

Nah, never mind all that. Much easier to deny, dismiss, disparage and even dodge taking your own medicine.

Regarding Adam and Chava’s expulsion, their lack of repentance was a part of the reason along with disobeying G-d. What’s the problem? This makes G-d a liar? Those dots don’t connect and now you’re changing the topic and grasping for straws so yes... I’m correcting you because you are wrong on endless levels.

You would disagree with me if I said the earth was round. Pathetic.

Apokalupto: "Can Oral traditions of man supercede Gods Holy Scriptures?"

When you make God a liar it's no where close to being based on Gods tenets.

See what happens when other things supersede Gods actual word?

DontNeedChrist:

You already typed that. Running out of things to say?

DontNeedChrist:

Scroll back to the very first page of this thread where I directly answered the OP’s question. An emphatic NO.

Keep hurling unfounded accusations. I have addressed this question succinctly. You just disagree with the reasoning. That’s it in a nutshell. Sorry you can’t deal with it.

DontNeedChrist:

These are the OP’s exact words in the initial post:

“i want to get into the meat of this discussion and show fundamentally it is an impossibility for any wisdom originating in man to supercede the word of God.”

I agree 100% in no uncertain terms. Wisdom does not originate from man. Wisdom originates from G-d only. Wisdom was given to man by G-d. There is no argument here. The question has not been dodged, ignored, flipped, sidestepped or any other creative term that can be dreamt up. Read carefully and stop the character assassination. It serves no purpose.

Zanjan: Every religion has its various institutions; one will be for overseeing legal responsibilities. It must must ensure that believers are advised of the law of both God and the Land, and that they obey both.

#1. When a believer breaks the law, the appropriate institution rules on the disciplinary measures required to bring that individual back to order or dismiss him/her from the community.

#2. That institution is free to judge any action that God hasn't already ruled on. It cannot make new Laws, only bylaws - that is, the application must fall under the regulations of one of the laws of God or the Land.

#3. No one is given the right to interpret the scriptures for others. The institutions should not be doing that either. Only a Revelator has the authority to do that.

When institutions become corrupt, they honour none of the above. It has nothing to do with how the information is conveyed.

DontNeedChrist:
...

Zanjan: An example of oral tradition: "Gambling is wrong".

There's no law in the Bible that rules on gaming or gambling. There might be a law of the land prohibiting it so, this is something the institution doesn't have to decide. They can judge whether or not a member is disobeying it.

If there is no law of the land on this, then the religious institutions are responsible to define what gaming and gambling are. From there, they must use the scriptures (Word of God) to guide them to an application. They may choose to educate the individual concerned or make a bylaw for the whole community.

Bylaws are flexible - they can be reversed or adjusted at any time. They might be legislated for one country but not for another country where members reside. This isnt a double standard - it governs actions based on the given conditions.

Llouis97: A Word is something spoken. Oral tradition comes from the mouth, and Jesus is the living Word of God. To answer this the best thing to do is think about what transitioned from the Old Testament to the New Testament, and to look at that and realize what we can glean from the New Testament to now. The thing that unites the whole covenant of God is Abraham, the father of all faith. Jesus never changed one jot or tittle of the law, that's what He has said. But how was the law created? By the Word of God. So Jesus is the source of the law. That is why He, the Word, in human flesh was able to fulfill the law by becoming the entire sin offering for us. When the veil was torn, instantly all who placed their sin on the ultimate sin offering became a holy part of Israel. The Testament has never changed, truly nothing has ever changed. We are still under Jewish law in its entirety, but like a wild olive tree as Paul says, we are grafted in to Israel. But Israel is the tree, we are spiritually all descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, if we put our faith in Yahweh's law, which is Christ's offering of Himself. Oral tradition is where the Word of God came from, and was passed down. Jesus built upon the foundation of the Old Testament, thus we must build any oral tradition we have upon the Old Testament and New Testament. There is no need for a third testament, but we must always understand the whole Word of God with the Holy Spirit upon us.

Llouis97: Oral tradition can bring about God's heart, which is what matters in the end. God does not destroy, He builds.