Psalm 2:12 under siege

Apokalupto: Psalm 2:12
At the end I dropped a 4 min video describing the BASIC poetic structure of the psalm and the two verses (v6 & v12) that break the pattern making the two profound statements in the chapter stand out.

I am posting this because people are attacking the word of God.

There are two sides to every coin.

Apokalupto: Psalm 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Some claim that translating the word bar” (in Psalm 2:12) as “son” rather than as “purity” is a distortion of the Hebrew text in order to make the verse apply to Jesus. It is also claimed that this is not a Jewish interpretation of the verse. And finally, it is said that the word “bar” means “son” only in Aramaic, whereas this psalm is in Hebrew.

Yet some important Jewish sources translate “bar” as “son.” The translation can be supported by linguistic arguments. Therefore there is no basis for claiming that this rendering is a “Christian mistranslation.”

Some of these sources are as follows:

The interpretation of Ibn Ezra (12th c.):
Ibn Ezra rejects the simple and acceptable meaning of ‘bar’ as pure and inclines to translate it as son, referring it to the “anointed one” in v. 2 and making it the apposite of “Thou art my son” in v. 7. Bar would then allude to Israel in his view.

Read more: https://jewsforjesus.org/answers/in-psalm-2-12-is-kiss-the-son-a-mistranslation-by-the-christians-2/

The KJV translates "נשׁקו־בר (nashku bar)" as "kiss the son". The meaning of the verb "נשׁקו (nashku)" is not so much in dispute. "Kiss" is the literal translation (Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions) and "do homage" is a paraphrase of "kiss". The idea is that kissing demonstrates the subject's reverence towards the master. The KJV keeps the literal rendering.

"Son" fits the context

The bigger issue is whether "בר (bar)" should be translated "Son".

The normal Hebrew word for "son" is "בנ (ben)".
"בר (bar)" means "son" in Aramaic (Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions).
"בר (bar)" means "pure" in Hebrew is(Brown-Driver-Briggs' Hebrew Definitions). That is why some translations have "Do homage in purity" at Psalm 2:12.

However, "בר (bar)" is used to mean "son" in Proverbs 31:2 ("What, my son [ברי]? and what, the son [בר] of my womb? and what, the son [בר] of my vows?", so it is possible for the Aramaic word to be used in Hebrew poetry.

Read more: http://www.kjvtoday.com/home/kiss-the-son-or-do-homage-in-purity-in-psalm-212

This video demonstrates in a short amount of time how two verses in psalm 2 stand out.

Psalm 2:6  Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 

Psalm 2:12  Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him. 

I believe the Holy Spirit has translated it 100% correctly.

Enjoy.

DontNeedChrist:

What are Xrusaoros Pegasos's aka Anonymous Attributes' sources for this deception? Jewsforjesus.com, KJV (King James Version) Today.com, and an anti semitic Baptist pastor. Any Jewish or Hebrew sources? NO.

Always consider the source.

Apokalupto: The Jews and their straw men: Topic: Religion

Apokalupto: A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent.[1] One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man".

The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man" and the subsequent refutation of that false argument ("knock down a straw man" instead of the opponent's proposition.[2][3] Straw man arguments have been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly regarding highly charged emotional subjects. -Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

You've not refuted a single argument of mine. I think ill leave that comment of your up since it represents you pretty well. Attacking the man not the argument.

Apokalupto: EDIT (Corrected the chapter and verse references)

Yes you succeeded in actually having my thread censored by complaining to the mods to have it removed under the pretense of anti-semitism. They removed it because you complained, not because it was anti-semitic. I am not ashamed of the word of God, but you are ashamed of the word of God that is why you had my thread censored even though the quote was from Isaiah. And that is why you attacked Psalm 2:12. Anyone that quotes Isaiah 6:9-10 and expresses verbal agreement in that verse is deemed anti-semitic.

Apokalupto: EDIT Look ^^^, he's deleting his OWN posts, he knows he doesn't belong here, he knows he has nothing worth saying. Then sit there and whine when i remove your cocky little quips. The irony.

You are literally shoving yourself in my face as you bully me. You had my thread censored and call me and my faith, the Gospel, vile, sick and disgusting under the pretense of anti-semitism for discussing Biblical topics which had nothing at all to do with anti-semitism but then after silencing me like a liberal you immediately attempt to recreate the problem in THIS thread after you had the original topic removed and silencing it FROM WIRE, which is not like just removing an undesirable comment, you have removed altogether the ability to discuss Christian doctrine and faith.

Apokalupto: There doesn't seem to be an authentic bone in your body.

You gloat about how Jews can debate anything, anything is up for debate. That is obviously not true.

You pretend that you are censored when in fact you are not as you are at liberty to post your own threads and say what ever. You can even recreate my thread in your own and mischaracterize it, answer it, abuse it, bash it, mock it any which way you want as you have for so long already and no one cares, no one is going to censor your right and freedom to
express what ever dribble comes out of your mouth in your own threads.

On the other hand you have actually had my thread topic of Isaiah 6:9-10 (Which was quoted and explained in the NT) taken down, removed, "CENSORED," you have effectively made it "impossible" for me as a Christian to discuss that topic openly in the forum which is an integral part of Gospel. It is the actual New Testament Gospel explanation of the very "question" of "why" the children of Israel rejected Jesus.

So, if I am vile for believing in the Gospel then I am vile.

So according to DontNeedChrist I guess Christians are vile for believing in the Gospel, and so is the Gospel since it is the source of faith and practice.

You CANNOT say my “words” were what was vile for restating the verse in Isaiah, our faith and religion is part of who we are as Christians. that's called PASSING THE BUCK and its littered thorough politics as people try to either shift blame or responsibility for their words.

pass the buck
phrase of buck

informal

shift the responsibility for something to someone else. (Like shifting responsibility of your insults and accusations from being to Christians and the Gospel to just the words themselves)

"elected political leaders cannot pass the buck for crisis decisions to any alternative source of authority"

Isaiah 6:9-10 is quoted in the Gospel AS integral to the Gospel and a central part in explaining Jesus story and subsequent rejection, you cannot accuse the words of being vile without accusing the Gospel of Jesus Christ along with it, and subsequently also myself and any other
Christian who believe the Gospel.

You are trying to pass the buck. Poetry is more honest than you, she will just come out and say it. But you hide by having an entire thread censored because a Christian is expressing their religious belief in the Gospel, then laugh and gloat and mock, and hide again from taking responsibility by passing the buck. You've been chasing me around the galaxy now almost a year to even the score, make yourself feel better and validated yourself as you crusade against me in your vendetta to justify your actions.

You are obsessed with me.

You can't accept that Christians have a different point of view than your own, your public affection for me and Christian doctrine is well known. I thought I cut the umbilical cord a looong time ago, apparently not since you're still feeding off of me.

Apokalupto:

Tricks of the trade: Topic: Religion

DontNeedChrist:

YOUR words...I repeat YOUR words were exactly this:

“G-d blinded the Jews.”

You claim this is what Isaiah says.

Let’s examine Isaiah 6 verses 9 and 10 since you seem so fond of them. What do they actually say?

Verse 9:
And He said, "Go and say to this people, 'Indeed you hear, but you do not understand; indeed you see, but you do not know.'

Verse 10
This people's heart is becoming fat, and his ears are becoming heavy, and his eyes are becoming sealed, lest he see with his eyes, and hear with his ears, and his heart understand, and he repent and be healed."

I don’t see any indication of G-d claiming to blind the Jews or someone claiming G-d blinded the Jews. IT’S SIMPLY NOT THERE!

DontNeedChrist:

So you, the christian take it up a notch and claim that G-D BLINDED ALL OF ISRAEL....ALL JEWS even to this day because they reject the christian god. But your Isaiah source says nothing of the kind.

If a new religion came along and a follower of that religion claimed the christian was blind because he does not acknowledge that new religion’s god, you would be offended. You know it and I know it.

Your thread was offensive and apparently the Wireclub admins agreed. I did not censor you. Wireclub deleted a hateful forum topic titled “Why the Jews Aren’t Saved.” You claim you’re being censored when you delete every one of my responses to your topics. Anyone can see how many times I have been censored from your forums. My only retort is to rebut you in my own threads where you will not censor ME. I’ve stated repeatedly, you are welcome to participate in the discussion provided you are on topic.

You claim I’m “obsessed” with you but the truth is your are obsessed with Jews, Judaism, the “OT”, and Israel as you post forum after forum about those topics. Let’s look at the titles:

“Moses brass serpent”
“Messianic prophecy BS”
“ISAIAH 53 to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?”
“Abrahams seed according to promise”
“Virgin Daughter of Zion part 1”
“Virgin Daughter of Zion part 2”
“Jesus in the Talmud”
“Jesus in Genesis”
“Holy Spirit in the Old Testament”
“The Jews and their straw men”
“The prefigure of lifting up Isaac: Jesus in the OT”
“OT & NT Foreshadowed in Genesis”
“Psalm 2:12 under siege”

Wow. I’m the obsessed one?

DontNeedChrist:

Every one of these and other topics you’ve brought up warrant a response from the Jewish POV because they are Jewish in nature from one degree to another. Every time you post topics of this nature, I will be there to respond. Don’t like it? Don’t post. And make no mistake, if it weren’t you, it would be someone else and I’ll be there too. As long as I have this forum on Wireclub, you can expect to meet your match with me. I know you’ll delete this.

Think before you post.

Apokalupto: My thread post was a quote from the Gospel of John.

John 12:38  That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 

John 12:39  Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 

John 12:40  *He* hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 

I never quoted Isaiah in my original post, John did and he interpreted and explained that God was the agent behind that when he quoted it.

After I quoted the Gospel I reiterate it in my own words which you have quoted my words above already.

Apokalupto: The Bible deals mostly with Israel, Jews and Christians, that's the bulk of the book. Jesus earthly ministry was to the house of Israel, so naturally Israel plays a big part, it is really inescapable subject when discussing and breaking down the stories and their characters. My posts are about Christian knowledge, they aren't about you.

I see you are trying to slip taking responsibility again by hiding behind Isaiah when I quoted the Gospel of John. I quoted John and that is what I reitered, and that is where you said I made an anti-semitic comment, which in of itself makes the gospel anti-semitic, at least those verses. It does not matter if you agree with what John said or not, the fact is it's Christian doctrine and that is what I was expressing.

Take responsibility.

DontNeedChrist:

Scroll up.

YOUR WORDS:

“On the other hand you have actually had my thread topic of Isaiah 6:9 (Which was quoted and explained in the NT) taken down, removed, "CENSORED”

You opened that thread stating ‘G-D BLINDED THE JEWS” and admit that was what your thread topic was about. The title of it (Why the Jews Aren’t Saved) is offensive in and of itself.

TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.