Man dust

HydroMan: Why did God create Adam from dust, of all the things, why not gold or something precious?

Zanjan: Gold can be dust too but isn't precious in that form. It only becomes valuable to us when it takes on a discernible shape, like nuggets, veins, bars etc. Obviously, if there were no humans, it wouldn't be precious at all - just somewhat uncommon.

The physical body of a sentient being is merely a moving form of dust; we value it because it's taken on a usable shape. When the body dies, over time, it's forgotten and is as if it never was. Thus, dispensable.

The living being with a great spirit is more valuable to us than one who doesn't have that because they have an uncommon power. How does one capture that?

Like the old Star Wars theme, you've got to possess it to use it.

"He who refuses to obey cannot command." ~ Kenyan proverb

So it is we journey through life and come to stand in the rank and station we've earned. We came from the dust of ignorance, we moved through it and walked upon it. Yet only those who rose above it are recognized as gems.

Adam began as a human, like any other - dust, compared to what He was to become. God took Him from that first place and brought Him to a second place. More precious than gold, He became a holy fire, a shining Light to the world.

Angry Beaver: And never let the facts stand in the way of a good story

Zanjan: Hey, you can use a modern story, maybe something from a University text book, newspaper? Maybe in your own lifetime?

When I asked my mother where I came from, she said 'out from under a cabbage leaf'. When I asked my dad, he said 'out from under a rock'. I thought they were kidding......until I realized that's what they thought of me.

Zanjan: Everything in existence has been created - it can never be uncreated, it can only change form. That's scientific law.

Zanjan: The law of God is that creation is eternal. Therefore, it's ongoing. This implies that transformation must be a property of creation.

Unlike the physical body, the soul is eternal - once created, it never ceases to exist. It can have many transformative experiences but it remains intact as long as God exists.

chronology: Most likely when God created Adam He did so by gene splicing an already existing human like creature. Possibly a Neandathals or Cro Magnon.

It seems most likely that there was life, and even Civilizations of some kind before Adam. Adam was created around 50000 years ago. It seems reasonable to assume given the small clues we have that there was animal and plant life before that time. God simply gene sliced a Pet or low intelligence worker of some kind for His Estates on earth at the time. When the Reptilian creature tricked man into eating the hallucinogenic fruit it blasted his mind and made him unfit for further menial labour. So Adam got his Pink slip and the rest is history.
But then there appeared Jesus Christ, and He is offering a whole new deal to humans today.

Zanjan: Adam wasn't a physical mutant. He was God's first Revelator to humanity; He opened the first spiritual cycle. As such, that produced the first civilization; initially, this wasn't expressed as urbanization. That came much later with successive Revelators.

Chron, to learn how things were created, we have to follow the natural laws - God made them so isn't going to depart from them. He's got the mega time to create, we don't.

To make a new race of humans requires not only genetic mutation but many generations of line-breeding to cement the changes and make them dominant genes. That's exactly how we got the little Pekinese descended from the Wolf - selection for desired traits. The selection continued until it wasn't possible for the new breed to mate with the old ones anymore.

This is how Homo Sapien Neanderthalensis disappeared - aside from environmental disaster, the ladies no longer found him attractive when compared to the Homo Sapien Sapien males. Adam was undoubtedly Homo Sapien Sapien.

God is making a new race of H. Sapiens right now.

We can't tell outwardly because we're in the early stages of interbreeding between various stocks He's brought together through mass human migrations. However, the thin tracings of new spiritual traits and intellect are already showing up. Undoubtedly, it will take at least 50,000 years before future men can name their breed.

According to Biblical accounts, Adam lived around 20,000 years ago. Of course, there are a few errors in the timelines of Genisis, likely due to frequent re-telling over time; we know them to be errors because the numbers don't line up with some personal stories and artifacts.

Zanjan: By the way, the "Jesus deal" wasn't new. Modern Christians maintain it is because they're ignorant of other religions. What they saw as new was only a change in view, nothing more.

Zanjan: What we DO know is when Homo Sapiens Sapiens became the last breed standing - 40,000 years ago. This raises the question about why God didn't send a Revelator at that point, why wait another 20,000 years?

What we DO know is that Homo Sapien Sapien wasn't entirely a pure breed. Back then, all populations had a high percentage of DNA from other shared breeds, which became extinct. Although too low to manifest phenotypically, it was high enough to maintain strong old characteristics and behaviours.

For that reason, science can't say when the H. Sapien Sapien "split off" because that didn't actually happen. What happened is more like filling a glass of water with grains of sand. Therefore, science can only determine when and where interbreeding with other races ceased.

For all intents and purposes, it seems likely that all those early modern humans were too crude to work with at the supernatural level - not enough salt. Thus, God waited for the saturation point in the glass of water, that is, when the elements of a certain mental faculty had solidified in all populations.

Any sooner, it would be like pouring the waters of divine knowledge through cheesecloth.

chronology: Interesting views Zan. But I agree with Blackie. God never waited for anything, Blackie believes God worked with mud, personally I believe God did some Gene Splicing on a Neandathal or something similar. He created a more intelligent Pet or Menial for His Estates. It may have been just a relaxing project to work with after the devistating revelation organised by Lucifer. That revolution must have been distressing for God. Around 30pc of His popular joined the Lucifer faction. When Adam and Eve were created millions of former servents of God were, and to this day, still held in prisons. God has no time limit for traitors. Watching His two pets sweep up, have sex and play about must have Given Him peace of mind. The Reptilian act of turning the two humans into drunken drugged up fools was probably revenge for the angels held in prison.
Probably many a rich man has had his horses or dogs killed by some Guy with a grudge.

Zanjan: You know, any verse in the Bible can be interpreted any which way, including loose. This is why NOBODY agrees that it means the same thing.

If you have a belief, be sure it's based on a thorough forensic study. That means there will be evidence everywhere. Never take a position on something you personally don't fully understand - you don't understand it if you're filling in the gaps.

Even scientists make some mistakes - not because the science is poor but because they make assumptions without evidence.

For example, scientists assumed Neanderthals buried their dead. How so? How do you know it wasn't a loving Homo Sapien friend who did that? How about a Homo Sapien family that adopted a Neanderthal child? How about one family copying or being taught by Homo Sapiens?

Unless that grave is surrounded by the victim's parents graves, and their parent's graves, how could you determine who buried the body? There are no Neanderthal graveyards.

chronology: Maybe Zan. Curiously if you ever met an retired U.S. Service person and asked him or her how likely an ect of revenge like the Reptilian act of tricking Adam and Eve they would probably tell you that kind of thing happens after every Government Action. Think of Tim Macveigh. He explained to Federal Agents he was avenging the incident at Wako. In his upside down way of thinking he probably saw himself as a hero. The Reptilian probably told God his actions were justified. His punishment was to be forced to crawl everywhere for the rest of his life.

Zanjan: Well, the serpent didn't speak to God or Adam - it spoke to Eve. That's a very important point.

Traditionally, Adam also represents the higher spirit and Eve the soul. The serpent is the ego (self). Everyone has heard that same little voice in their head, telling them to do what their soul knows they shouldn't. The serpent is mesmerizing, its sway is hypnotic.

That's a good visual aid - if you linger, that delay is going to cost you big time. Moses moves the story ahead with His bronze serpent on the pole episode. He tells the Jews to LOOK at it.

Seems the Jews hadn't been recognizing the serpents, not until it was too late and they'd been bitten - they hadn't been alert. The serpent speaks against or challenges God. Then we get to the Christians:

1 Corinthians 10:9
"Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents".

Muhammad, in the Quran, doesn't speak of serpents, only satan. Apparently, the serpent visual had, by then, outlived its usefulness. We understand that the serpent and satan are the same. The enemy is selfishness.

chronology: Zan, as ever you have a vast experience of religion, but if I may suggest, you are doing what blackie does in reading the Bible like no other book.

I read once that Tim Macveigh was executed for the Oklahoma City Bombing' . None of the American State's execute people without giving them a trial which meets Constitutional Standards. So it is reasonable to assume that Tim was given a fair trial 'the American way' as they say. The'Reptilian' the Bible does not say snake, was in all likelihood given a chance to speak at his arrest.

There is no reason to assume that the Bible is simply giving some kind of Freudian lesson about Ego and Super Ego, it is speaking of an actual event. Dr Jung used to insist UFOs were simply hallucinations. But some UFO sightings have multiple witnesses, witnesses that include police Officers, and Radar data. Seems difficult to insist all those people were tripping when they saw what they did.

The Bible is pretty rigid about some events being real events. Adam and Eve are such real people.
A man who worked in the computer business was saying how U.S. Law required different levels of accuracy for programs run by Computer Chips. A toy car would not have a high demand for accuracy, but a heart pacemaker would be required by U.S. Lawmakers to have a very very high standard of accurate programming. It is the same with the Bible. It is very strict in reporting some events as real, the Garden of Eden event is one such example. The rich man and Lazarus may just have been a story Jesus told to explain the results of being callous, but Eden was a real historical event.

Zanjan: My theory about Tim McVeigh is that his mother drank when she was pregnant. That caused a well-known birth defect; his defective brain was vulnerable to certain influences. This kind affects the mental state because, while they've been taught right from wrong, they just don't understand why it is.

Since empathy and compassion isnt there, that leaves a hole for contempt and hatred. If Tim had thought of himself as a hero, he'd have been a suicide bomber. No, he planned his escape. There are countless people who take justice into their own hands but they place limits on that. Tim didn't care where that line was. His focus was on wielding the only power available to him.

The serpent in the Bible knew full well what God had told Eve. Listen to the conversation - at first, she resists; the serpent is informed of why she's resisting but doesn't care and is only concerned with its comeback. Eve is beguiled by her own lust for power.

Zanjan: Chron, we're well aware of the condition of MPI (Mass Psychogenic illness); what people don't realize is one doesn't need to have direct contact with others for the effect to ripple through populations.

The study of UFOs tries to determine whether or not a sighting is an MPI or a physical event; if it's the latter, then determine which physical event. So many of those round glowing lights turned out to be caused by charged particles emitted by tectonic movements just prior to earthquakes somewhere along the fault line. Some were just ball lightning, and we think some were struck by it. Others can't be explained.

The Bible has two major approaches simply because "Thy Will be done on earth as it is in heaven". Yes, Adam and Eve were real people but what's the point without a story? What is their purpose? The Garden of Eden is paradise, representing the paradise of nearness to God and the work of the Kingdom of God.

You have to use the familiar to teach the unfamiliar because the former is the foundation on which to build. What's a basement worth without a house on top?
What are the spiritual realities and dynamic principles involved in this teaching?

chronology: Interesting Idea Zan, but I don't think the Reptilian was expecting any kind of comeback. Like Tim he probably had his head full of vain glory. But who knows? You seem correct in him having brain damage. Either that or he was drugged up to the eyeballs.
He was a sad Guy in some ways. But Oklahoma Police and the FBI who carried dead children out of the Murrah building probably just wish he stuck to selling guns and gloating about how he could shoot down FBI helicopters.

Zanjan: Only humans manufacture; God creates.

Zanjan: All powerless people resort to material means because that's all they have.

The lovers of God have divine power at their disposal so they dont need weapons of any kind - they can help construct a better civilization, and that civilization will, in turn, have a remedial effect on the rogues. It may not cure them but keeps them restrained.

Zanjan: What Tim couldn't understand is that the government and religion are both providing a service to society - their mutual aim is to create order. They go about it different ways because both ways are necessary. You've heard of the two-pronged approach. One can't be highly skilled in more than one field.

Like all terrorists, Tim didn't see himself as an enemy of the state but as the only hand of justice; and, he wanted full credit for that. If his lust hadn't interfered, he would have understood that justice saves, it doesn't destroy.

chronology: Like you say Zan, I think he was insane. He was obsessed with a book called The Turner Diaries. But he was still fit to plead his case to the people of Oklahoma. But he was considered as having been beyond the redemption of the U.S. reformatory system.

Zanjan: Well, it all comes back to the serpent, who was so bold because he knew God wouldn't kill him. He knew God would let him continue on, he just didn't speculate his own outcome.

Spiritual illness does look like organic mental illness. A mind doesn't become unbalanced without cause. That's why the best psychiatrists are those well versed in religion - they need to be able to tell the difference so they can prescribe the right remedy.

Unfortunately, people with Tim's condition don't go to psychiatrists. Unlike organic mental illness, spiritual illness, without treatment, can be fatal. Everybody is aware of that stage so the sufferer becomes isolated, even shunned. As such, there's no way the victim doesn't realize his condition.

Jesus referred to the lepers. Outwardly, it seems God forgot about them. Well, Jesus appeared and cured some but not all. One has to be willing to accept the medicine.

Like the serpent, Tim knew he'd be caught, even wanted to be caught, so he could revel in the publicity. He didn't want to be forgotten. Some will accept infamy rather than nothing at all.

chronology: Just curious Zan. Are you saying Tim was shunned because he had a spiritual illness of rebellion against the U.S.Government ? . Tim was a drifter who traveled from motel to motel. But he was not a kind of social outcast. He was not a bad looking Guy, so women who wanted some casual sex would not be shy inviting themselves to his motel room. If he was Gay, and it seems likely he was, Gay men would be interested in the big handsome young man.
It seems odd to say Americans avoided him for his spiritual disease of hating America.
As for his thoughts about not getting captured or caring about his arrest, who knows what he was thinking at the time. A curious point about Tim was he seemed totally out of it when he was arrested. The arresting officer commented how polite Tim was. He was the most polite and calm person he ever arrested. He acted like he couldn't care less.

Zanjan: No, people are loners because they can't keep friends; often, not jobs either.

Tim was hardly the first or worst of his kind; domestic terrorism began back in the 1970s. The problem is with liberty - people think they should have more of it, and more and more all the time. That leads to sedition.

You only need one lunatic to overhear the malcontent and pick up that ball and run with it. I remember the sensationalism back then, how it triggered so many copy cat killers.