The Truth about the Talmud (Page 3)

Zanjan: The decision of the Jewish nation was to end the Talmud AFTER it was edited. That was back in 500 AD; ergo, there is no way for us to know how much or what was redacted or changed. So, to say their knowledge and traditions were preserved intact is inaccurate.

If anything, by that time, the Jews had been influenced by Christianity; having seen many things in a new light, they realized the problems the Talmud had been causing. Knowledge, itself, doesn't cause problems - it's too little knowledge that does.

In my view, the Jewish community is rich NOT due to its ancient writings but millennia of walking through the fire of tests.

Apokalupto: she awakens old threads and gives no answers as to how it is possible to maintain oral traditions with 100% accuracy over thousands of years.

DontNeedChrist:

Define 100% accuracy. The Oral Tradition is not meant to be measured in such a way. It evolves with the times. It changes and adapts to each new chapter in the Jewish saga. It does not comply with your measuring stick which is proof you have no idea what the Oral Tradition is, how to study it or how to live by it.

DontNeedChrist:

That goes for both of you.

Apokalupto: so are you saying that whatever oral information that the Jews say God handed to Moses and the like for to interpret the Torah no longer exist in the same form that they were originally given in because it has been changed and morphed over time in order to apply and be applicable to the current time and age?

DontNeedChrist:

Never said that. Use your brain to answer your own question.

Apokalupto: so you, like black panther or whatever her name is, haven't given a complete answer.

the oral traditions change, evolve, adapt.

don't know what that means but without more information it sounds like they're not in their original form when they were "supposedly first given"

DontNeedChrist:

Define original form. Define 100% accuracy.

Apokalupto: good question.

you have said that God gave the oral to understand the Torah, do those exact words still exist from the time that they were first given? has the meaning changed at all? do you still know exactly what was "supposedly" spoken to Moses which you call oral tradition?

DontNeedChrist:

How can "exact words" still exist if they are spoken? We are not discussing words, we are discussing concepts, teachings, conversations, debates, discussions, teacher-to-student interaction, parent-to-child interaction. There is not one single "100%" meaning. It's meant to be a fluid discussion.

What "exact words?"

You ask absurd questions because you lack the very foundational knowledge of the subject matter. You're too busy dissing it anyway.

Apokalupto: from what I gather, whatever was handed to Moses that was then the oral tradition has now changed, evolved, adapted to a new age. seems plain to me that it is an admission that you do not know what was precisely given to Moses etc.

oral traditions do not remain the same for thousands of years, that much we all know.

Apokalupto: and tell me what do you personally believe, is Jewish halacha the divine word of God in the same sense that you consider the Torah to be?

DontNeedChrist:

You can "gather" whatever you want. Not going to be baited into a conversation you've already admitted you don't want to have.

Apokalupto: abuse? i've stated the fact and it is very much a fact that no one can hold with 100% accuracy oral information for thousands of years. it's been pointed out already that the oral traditions change.

on the other hand you've followed me around in a couple of threads now, then ask me questions, then you tell me to answer my own question, and then tell me I am baiting you lol, then claim I'm spinning and lastly claim I'm "abusing" something....

delete my account? well you are obviously trying to trigger or bait me.

pretty good reason right there why it's a waste of time talking to you.

maybe you should change, evolve, and adapt. smh

Zanjan: I’ll remind you all again, please refrain from directing your comments to personalities. If you have something personal to say to another poster, use private messaging. An adult discussion doesn’t “call people out”.

Zanjan: DNC wrote: “you have no idea what the Oral Tradition is, how to study it or how to live by it.”

That’s a general assumption. When oral traditions go to print, they're no longer oral.
Dictionary Def: Oral Tradition -
"Oral tradition, or oral lore, is a form of human communication wherein knowledge, art, ideas and cultural material is received, preserved, and transmitted orally from one generation to another. The transmission is through speech or song and may include folktales, ballads, chants, prose or verses."

Culture should be preserved; whereas, believers in God must live by God's Word, not culture.

I’ve read the Talmud and am not challenging anything in it. Nor have I seen any poster do that. Even Jews admit to live by everything in it is an absurdity in the modern world. That culture was an exclusive world which is no more and no one can revive it.

Even if one pretended to follow all the Talmud’s instructions, none of what they performed would make them a more spiritual person.

The proof is in the historical accounts of the Jewish nation, which has generously volunteered to share with the world its string of follies. They've done this to inform us all that God doesn't stand by idly when His people have gotten themselves into trouble. Only HE knows how to pull them out of the fire.

Jewish sources say the Babylonian Talmud is the more complete and authoritative book – that is to say the Jerusalem Talmud was incomplete and not authoritative. There’s no such thing as partly authoritative. Furthermore, so much of it isn’t at all founded on scripture but on their own perspective of justice and order.

While it’s important for Jews to know their roots, more importantly, they should focus on the health of the foliage.

Zanjan: XP, I don't think anyone had to keep the oral traditions for a thousand years. Some people were literate and wrote things down, even in the time of Moses - why else would He have those stone tablets?

So, they had hard copy of the Torah as far back as 1,200 B.C. When they added future writings by Jewish Prophets, those were written down as well but not compiled. The only people who had to memorize a lot were the illiterate and those in grave danger.

Follow religious history - you'll note that every time God sends a Revelator, civilization is advanced a bit more. The first thing these newly enlightened folks do is teach believers how to read and write because knowledge is a reflection of intellectual acuity - they're lovers of knowledge.

We read a story in the OT where the Jews lost all their laws - who had memorized them?? NOBODY! King Josiah (640--609 B.C) discovered they'd been written on a scroll, hidden in the temple. It was called the Book of the Law of God, given by Moses, thought to be Deuteronomy.

King Josiah is credited with reforming the Jews and legislating compliance. While he did the right thing, unfortunately, it was too little too late - it takes more than laws to create love for God.

Zanjan: DNC, no one is attacking yours or anyone else's study of the Talmud.

DontNeedChrist:

You're as trigger happy on the delete button as your buddy. No point in continuing an honest discussion with censorship. You two have fun.

Zanjan: The censorship is strictly for personal jabs. It really is possible to contribute a fact without pointing to any person.

Apokalupto: okay Zan, just going off of your previous comments about when the oral traditions were written down, maybe I misunderstood, though it's a fluid conversation so. it's not like I'm getting those answers from the other side.

they shouldnt be trying to restrict what other people are saying about "Jewish writings" on account of not being deeply aquinted with them considering they do the same. their excuses, a fact is a fact, well then do not be surprised if anyone else does the same. there are numerous things that they have been clearly shown what the answers are to Christian topics but they never retain them, and as for their "refutations" on Christian doctrine...the actual Christian answers that were previously given to them are never provided, resorting in their entire threads filled straw men. should not expect Christians to come run over there and talk to you, since you've already shown from the get-go what we should expect.

I'd rather ask questions and answer questions honestly and be treated the same way and not playing games. not everyone wants the same thing though creating an unbalance.

if Black panther wants to answer my question, feel free to be the one who provides the truth. do Jews consider the halaka to be divinely inspired in the same way that they considered the Torah to be the divinely inspired word of God?