The Truth about the Talmud (Page 2)

Apokalupto: since this thread was reawakened I've decided I'd like to comment.

Zanjan: "I agree the Babylonians had a powerful influence on the Jews. Contrary to common belief, when they were exiled, they didn't have any books to bring with them, barely more than the clothes on their backs as they had to leave in a hurry.

Regular Jews didn't read the Talmud until it was put into print. The main reason it was forbidden to write down was so it couldn't be challenged. Therefore, when the Rabbis did discus Jesus, regular Jews wouldn't know what they said.

Meanwhile, Scientific tests have proven that human memory of any event fails 50% in accuracy after the first year. If followers are not writing it down, you get inaccuracies."

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to be fair, using today's standards of memory retention for that of ancient people who exercised their memory everyday is likely to result in an inaccurate assessment. today people hardly use their memories, they don't have to, we have all kinds of tools and devices that do everything for us, but in ancient times and in many cases it was a complete necessity to be able to recite long or large amounts of information accurately.

the Jews believe that they have oral traditions going back all the way to Moses or further back than that, and as you say they were not written down to thousands of years later. ancient people may have had much better memory than we do now, but nobody can keep complete accuracy over thousands of years, not without the help of God's intervention, but I have yet to see a Jew on wireclub except even the existence of God's intervening holy Spirit.

having 100% accuracy over thousands of years is not reasonable at all, God's intervention is a necessity or it must be written down in some form, clay tablets or otherwise.

E s s e n c e: You argument is inconsequential AA, posting pseudo understandings and interpretations when neither one of you speak Hebrew nor Aramaic.

As for deleting what I said in your topic "Abraham Isaac Jacob and the Trinity" pointing out that another attempt of Christian polytheism wanting to root in monotheistic Judaic teachings was direct and true.

Apokalupto: I don't have to know Hebrew to know basic human experience and how memory works and what's to be expected from flesh. your response is a non-answer. that's fine, I wasn't talking to you.

Apokalupto: you didn't understand what I was saying. there's nothing dishonest or unethical about my post. I did not include it, but my comments about memory were about the general population of today compared to ancient people, which was to give credit to the general population of ancient people.

thanks for the references, but it is something I already know about. I'd much rather you stop reciting the same lines over and over and actually give answers and stop pointing the moral finger. lol 😂

Apokalupto: I don't need to know about Hebrew to know about memory, no one does.

Apokalupto: I haven't forgotten anything, and i am not in disagreement with your last post concerning memory. your spiel about not judging something if you don't know about it isn't really something you truly believe, you just proved that, so every time you say that to "goyim" I will remember that you don't believe your own words.

dispense with the moral superiority.

Apokalupto: having 100% accuracy over thousands of years is not reasonable at all, God's intervention is a necessity or it must be written down in some form, clay tablets or otherwise.

Zanjan: It's a shame I had to delete posts because of the acrimony and insults embedded with some worthwhile points. If you can remember what you wrote, by all means re-state them.

Zanjan: Moderns are fully capable of memorizing as much as they desire; we agree it's not practical to memorize anything other than extracts. I certainly think it's possible some ancients possessed a photographic memory but that would require a hard copy.

There's nothing to remembering laws - they're simply 'do' or 'don't'. Theology is another matter and that's simply mucking around, trying to play God.

The ancients memorized SCRIPTURE by putting the words to many songs - they didn't memorize in great swaths - who could focus on a 3 hour long song? You'd need some very simple words and a chorus like "It's a small world after all".

Furthermore, you can't meditate on passages while reciting them or while someone else is singing or talking. One would use passages in a speech, not just stand there, singing on and on. The glory of man is his intellect and utterance; great orators convince and move the spirit - that's a talent.

Memorization is highly over-rated - if one doesn't understand the underlying principles, they're unable to make appropriate applications or use them to build into new knowledge. A person who fully understands 2 spiritual principles is wiser than the one who memorizes a whole book.

Zanjan: As for accuracy, language changes as the storymind changes; many old words no longer have the same meaning, effect, or are still in existence. Moderns need a degree in ancient languages to translate; due to the antiquity, that requires some interpretation and a consensus on the conveyance.

The words of *men* are rarely heard or recorded accurately; even while the speaker is alive, the media often misquotes them. I've seen it happen here at wire, poster to poster.

However, God's Word has special protection. Believers are charged with preserving it as well as humanly possible but that doesn't mean they recorded/memorized it identically. Where there are errors that can no longer be corrected, God updates it with His own Voice.

Apokalupto: they're not your writings, you weren't there, you didn't help write them, and you don't descend from them who did.

Zanjan: Jaguar, if the Jews kept Judaic knowledge intact, perhaps you can explain why there's practically nothing left of the Jerusalem Talmud.

The Babylonian Talmud came entirely from a separate rabbinic school; those particular Jews had been influenced by the teachings of Zoroaster. They couldn't have escaped that. I'd say their traditions changed. No matter how attached people were to them, they changed again and again up to present day.

Modern Judaism maintains the core teachings, which are found in the Hebrew Bible.

Jaguar, you're walking on thin ice when you call people lazy - those who are interested in knowledge don't focus on personalities, especially negatively. They demonstrate their technique.

The source of all knowledge is GOD. We can only refer to concrete evidence and proven truths.

Apokalupto: starting from yesterday until now I've been very focused on one thing only, which is that the oral tradition cannot remain 100% intact over thousands of years. so I am not talking about Hebrew language roots or Greek roots, tree roots or any kind of roots, or the interpretation of words or religious text.

do Jews actually have a reasonable explanation as to how oral tradition from thousands of years ago could have been handed down to them preserved 100% accurately?

Zanjan: You make an excellent point.

Zanjan: I think we should clarify that scriptures are NOT classified as tradition. They're the source of in inspiration yet inspiration is an evanescent thing.

Apokalupto: " I think we should clarify that scriptures are NOT classified as tradition. "
correct. specifically when I say oral tradition I'm referring to talmudic content.