Blatant Mistranslations?! Contextual Dishonesty?! Why did christianity paint Jesus into the Jewish Scriptures? (Page 2)

Jaguar Essence: Amore, beautifully said.

Zanjan: It was still called Palestine under the Ottoman Empire, also the British mandate. I don't think there will ever be an independent Palestinian state. The stage of Nation-building is over.

Zanjan: In another topic, there was discussion about the Jewish prophecy of the birth of a red heifer as being a sign that the messiah has arrived.

I simply can't find any reference to this - as a prophecy - in the Old Testament. Meanwhile, Christians have "painted" Jesus as equating to the appearance of this perfect red heifer. I can't find anything in the New testament referring to that.

I've asked, but no one seems to know where this supposed prophecy originated. Seems to me, that it's tamperable - genuine prophecy isn't.

amoregrowers: Numbers 19 which begins, "And the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying: This is the ordinance of the Torah which the Lord has decreed, saying, Speak to the children of Israel and have them bring you a red heifer without defect, in which there is no blemish, and upon which never came a yoke..."

a red heifer is needed for a third temple. The law requiers the temple to be clensed with the ashes from a re heifer.

amoregrowers: Im not sure how it relates to Jesus

When the Third temple is built their will be a red heifer.

Zanjan: I'm aware of the law of this sacrifice, as written in the OT - my understanding is its purpose was to cleanse the person who had touched a corpse. The cow had to be slaughtered outside the temple area. After the priest did his ash sprinkling, he had to cleanse himself too (by washing with water).

This made me wonder how the ancient Jews prepared their dead for burial. How could you do it without touching the body? According to archeologists, there was only a small period of time when Jews (in Israel) practiced burial using decomposition nooks/slabs and bone boxes. They also had burial shrouds and washed the bodies first, at least at the time of Jesus. Have no idea why they started or stopped this method.

As a prophecy, why would you need a sign AFTER the third temple is built? Isn't it obvious? The temple would be the sign! According to Christians, it's the Messiah who builds it.

DontNeedChrist:

The Kohen Gadal (High Priest) is not permitted to touch a corpse so is not included in the burial process.

Of course a corpse must be handled for it to be buried otherwise there would be dead bodies rotting all over the place. Other Kohens prepare and bury the body. After a corpse is touched, there is a ritual cleansing process. This does not apply to the Kohen Gadol because he does not touch a corpse.

Zanjan: Interesting. Thanks for the explanation. Cemetery rules in Canada don't permit that.

In fact, if one chooses in-ground burial, their coffin has to be set inside a vault (in the ground) now - mostly for environmental reasons (drugs in the body leech into the earth), not to mention prevention from flood damage. Floods carry away coffins, sometimes popping them open - not a sight you'd want to see floating down the street.

Zanjan: Still, nobody has answered my question about the origin of the red heifer prophecy. Also, I'd read in the OT text the sacrificial cow is supposed to be yellow. What gives?

DontNeedChrist:

Numbers 19 as stated above is the origin. No such thing as a yellow cow.

Zanjan: The prophecy isn't about ritual purification - it's about the arrival of the Messiah. Here's my mistake -

Numbers 19 in the OT does specify a red heifer for the ritual, itself.. I was thinking of the Quran where Muhammad is quoting Moses's instruction to the people. Everything is the same as in the OT verses except there's a correction in the colour - here, Moses says it's "yellow" ( Surah 2:67-71) This is the surah of "The Cow".

Yes, there is such a thing as a yellow cow. They're native to Asia and the Phillipines as a breed. Actually, they're more of a golden, tawny. The brighter yellow ones are native to India and held sacred by the Hindus. Saudi Arabia and Africa have some.

"He says, 'It is a yellow cow, bright in color - pleasing to the observers.' "


Maybe yellow is the new red.

Now that you've explained what the translation of the words are to English, I'm starting to see how the Christians equated that to Jesus. The red heifer was traditionally slaughtered on the Mt. of Olives (archeology has discovered this) so that also points to the location of the crucifixion. I looked it up - comes from a non-canonical book, the Epistle of Barnabas 8:1

Meanwhile, all Christendom sees Jesus as the slaughtered lamb, not the slaughtered cow.

It almost seems like this is more of a Christian sourced *prophecy*, rather than Jewish. You see, SOME Christians believe that Christ can't return until the third temple is built. This requires the appearance of the red heifer.

However, that doesn't make sense to me because Christians don't make animal sacrifices. That's a Jewish rule. So, what makes Christians think a red heifer is required when that third temple is raised up by Christ??

Quite frankly, I'm thinking the red heifer *prophecy* is a bunch of bullocks.

DontNeedChrist:

Neither christianity or islam have one thing to do with the Third Temple or red heifer. Hence your confusion.

Zanjan: Have to correct you. Jesus directly prophesied He'd destroy the temple and raise it again in three days. He had two ways of doing this - first to the religious (Jewish) temple, second to His physical temple (own body). As you can see, both were fulfilled.

Muhammad is the fulfillment of most prophecies in the Book of Revelations. Islam belongs to the same spiritual lineage, descended from Abraham. Muhammad is also genetically descended from Abraham. Who's temple, today, sits on the second Jewish temple site?

I only use facts. Nobody is twisting your arm to accept them.

DontNeedChrist:

See my post above. You are incorrect and spreading misinformation.

Zanjan: Need I remind you of the Third Temple society? These Jews want the thrid temple to be built exactly on top of the ruins of the second temple. However, they'd have to bulldoze what's on there now. That's simply not going to go down well.

DontNeedChrist:

You're all over the place. What exactly is the topic?

Zanjan: You sound woefully confused.

DontNeedChrist:

I know how to stick to one topic. No confusion on this end. Not interested in following you down your usual rabbit trails.

Zanjan: The topic is about blatant mistranslation and contextual dishonesty, yes? About painting Jesus into Jewish scriptures.

I stayed on topic. Whereas, you made it personal - about me.

DontNeedChrist:

Zanjan: "You sound woefully confused."

That's not personal? Pot meet kettle.

Zanjan: You started it.

shadowline: As to why Christianity "painted in" Christ to Hebrew Scripture, that is a simple matter. The authors of the New Testament believed that Christ was the Messiah, and they were rejoiced to find that what God did in sending him was something far beyond what the promises had been thought to mean. It was redemption, for the whole world. As Jews they revered the Hebrew Scriptures, and as believers in Christ they revered Christ. Therefore, out of faith, reverence, and joy, they united them.

Zanjan: I think the exception the Jews take isn't to the actual prophecies - it's Christ's correction of some mistaken notions; quite possibly, including the adjustment of certain verses in the OT. (The writings and recordings of men have never been infallible, nor have their translations).

However, this is what a Messiah is *supposed* to do! How else would He change people's perspective, the way they conduct themselves in society, or the way they address justice in law? If He didn't sweep certain traditions aside, how else could He teach teach them anything new? From what shall they be rescued?

Since the ancient Jews made their own conditions of what a Messiah should do, Jesus didn't fit their criteria. Muhammad didn't fit and neither did the Bab. Followers of Jesus fell into that same pattern, as Jesus said they would.

Until believers accept that they can't control God, no Messiah will satisfy them. It's just as it was during the Exodus, when a very large group of followers decided the golden calf was what they wanted.