LIES ABOUT THE TALMUD (Page 4)

God is real
God is real: ok.Google the one that says that you are cursed by god if you are not married before 20 years of age unless for studying for a rabbi ?
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

YOU Google it and present it here. Tell me the tractate daf name and number. Then I'll respond.

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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

Waiting...

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amoregrowers
(Post deleted by amoregrowers 4 years ago)
God is real
God is real: Ḳid. 29b or properly written Qidd 29b
(Edited by God is real)
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God is real
God is real: waiting....
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amoregrowers
amoregrowers: GIR Jews that observe the sabbath do not play on the internet or use electronic from friday evening to Saturday evening... Day of Rest...
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

GIR’S CLAIM:
“You are cursed by G-d if you do not marry by 20 years of age unless for studying for a rabbi.”
– Kiddushin 29b

THE TALMUD TEXT:
“The Gemara notes: Rav Huna conforms to his standard line of reasoning, as he says: If one is twenty years old and has not yet married a woman, all of his days will be in a state of sin concerning sexual matters. The Gemara asks: Can it enter your mind that he will be in a state of sin all of his days? Rather, say that this means the following: All of his days will be in a state of thoughts of sin, i.e., sexual thoughts. One who does not marry in his youth will become accustomed to thoughts of sexual matters, and the habit will remain with him the rest of his life.”

“Rava said, and similarly, the school of Rabbi Yishmael taught: Until one reaches the age of twenty years the Holy One, Blessed be He, sits and waits for a man, saying: When will he marry a woman. Once he reaches the age of twenty and has not married, He says: Let his bones swell, i.e., he is cursed and G-d is no longer concerned about him.”


THE SUMMARY:
The claim is ONE line taken completely out of context.

What is clearly stated is a man should marry by a certain age, else he will be overcome with distracting sexual thoughts. Some sages say eighteen to twenty-four. When a man marries, his sexual thoughts will be directed to his wife and will not be wayward. It makes perfect sense for man to get married in his late teens or early twenties, when his biological drive is at its strongest. This is encouragement for a young man to marry while still young. In a Jewish marriage, the control of the man’s sexual drive is harnessed into a relationship of love with his soulmate, thus saving him from sinful thoughts (or worse).

The sages are simply discussing the appropriate age for a Jewish male to marry. The statement “he is cursed and G-d is no longer concerned about him” is not literal. Would G-d truly curse a man for not marrying by a certain age? Of course not. It’s an analogy. It’s a metaphor. It’s allegory. It’s an illustration to drive a point home about the proper marrying age. Many sages address the question: should the young man marry first or study first?

These are the OPINIONS of various sages and rabbis who use colorful and sometimes extreme examples of consequences. It’s not LAW. Also, it says nothing about “studying for a rabbi” whatever that means.

GIR has taken one line from several tractates OUT OF CONTEXT which is the usual motive to mislead the reader into coming to an erroneous conclusion.

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God is real
God is real: read the text that you just quoted.Let the man bones swell ...that is a curse.In fact one of the rabbies argue God has cursed this man.I agree sexual stuff and appropriate age to marry could be considered this but the point is whether GOD himself curses the individual or not.According to one of the rabbies he did
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God is real
God is real: Also deal with the talmudic claim that Pharaoh survived the flood and went to rule Ninevah in Jonah time....makes no sense
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

GIR:
“read the text that you just quoted.Let the man bones swell ...that is a curse.In fact one of the rabbies argue God has cursed this man.”

Read my ENTIRE post, not a sliver of it. I just explained that is METAPHOR, ALLEGORY, OPINION, ILLUSTRATIVE, ANALOGOUS. What part of that do you not understand?

There is no specific man that G-d has cursed. It’s theoretical.

This shows that you have no idea how to read the Talmud and insist on fixating on specific sentences while completely ignoring the CONTEXT.

I’ve addressed your claim in great detail. It’s not about G-d cursing young men. It’s about the proper age for marriage.

BTW, the plural of rabbi is rabbis, not “rabbies.”

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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

“Also deal with the talmudic claim that Pharaoh survived the flood and went to rule Ninevah in Jonah time....makes no sense”

Post the tractate. Don’t be so lazy.

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God is real
God is real:
Yalkut Shimoni Exodus 176. Also its not my problem that your talmud have different opinion of rabbies.The text does say that one of the rabbies claims god curses people as a rule.I am not looking for specific example.Thats silly
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

The plural of rabbi is rabbis. It’s pronounced RA-BIZE.

Rabbies as you spell it would be pronounced RA-BEEZ.

Get it right!

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God is real
(Post deleted by DontNeedChrist 4 years ago)
DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

Yalkut Shimoni is AGGADIC MIDRASH, not part of the Talmud.
But you knew that because you’re an expert on these matters.

(Edited by DontNeedChrist)
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

GIR: “I am not looking for specific example.Thats silly”

But YOU ARE looking for a specific example because you zero in on ONE part of the text, namely the part where someone offers their opinion regarding a curse from G-d. That’s about as specific as one can get. Who’s silly here?

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God is real
God is real: i dont care if its part of the talmud or not...its still something orthodox judaism believes.Also i already told you that according to the text the rabbi believes god curses people period.Thats what the text and context and the phraseology says.
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

This forum thread is about the Talmud. You want to discuss other Jewish works? Start your own thread. I don't care about what you don't care about. Find someone who does.

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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

THE CLAIM:
"Those who read the New Testament (uncanonical books) will have no portion in the world to come (heaven)." – Sanhedrin 90a

THE TALMUD TEXT:
“Rabbi Akiva says: Also included in the exceptions are one who reads external literature, and one who whispers invocations over a wound and says as an invocation for healing: “Every illness that I placed upon Egypt I will not place upon you, for I am the Lord, your Healer” (Exodus 15:26). By doing so, he shows contempt for the sanctity of the name of G-d and therefore has no share in the World-to-Come. Abba Shaul says: Also included in the exceptions is one who pronounces the ineffable name of G-d as it is written, with its letters.”

THE SUMMARY:
This tractate discusses various offenses a Jewish person may commit that could prevent them from having a share in the world to come -- one being a Jew that reads “external literature.” Akiva is referring to TRADITIONAL JEWISH BOOKS that were excluded from the biblical canon—what are known as “Apocrypha,” such as the book of Ben Sira, also known as Sirach or Ecclesiasticus. These books might have had readers who thought of them as authentically biblical, which is why Akiva made such a serious point of denying them. Nowhere does it single out or refer to the NEW TESTAMENT. Another lie.

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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

THE CLAIM:
No rabbi can ever go to hell. – Chagigah 27a

THE TALMUD TEXT:
"Rabbi Abbahu said that Rabbi Elazar said: The fire of Gehenna has no power over Torah scholars. This can be derived by an a fortiori inference from the salamander [salamandra], a creature created out of fire and immune to its effects, and whose blood is fireproof: If a salamander, which is merely a product of fire, and nevertheless when one anoints his body with its blood, fire has no power over him, all the more so should fire not have any power over Torah scholars, whose entire bodies are fire, as it is written: “Surely My words are as fire, says the Lord” (Jeremiah 23:29), and the words of Torah become part of the Torah scholars’ very bodies."

THE SUMMARY:
Firstly, the concept of Gehinnom in Judaism bears no resemblance to the hell of christianity. Gehinnom is a place where the soul is cleansed, not punished eternally. Second, Chagigah 27 describes the “fire of Torah” as being more powerful than the fires of Gehinnom and cites a verse from the Book of Jeremiah as a source. The fires of Gehinnom will therefore not make any impression on the soul of a person who has spent his life in Torah study. This tractate is simply stating Jews who immerse themselves in Torah study have nothing to fear regarding the soul cleansing that takes place in the afterlife. It says nothing about “rabbis” per se. It specifies TORAH SCHOLARS. A scholar is not necessarily a rabbi. The crux of this portion of the Talmud exhorts the importance of Torah study, not that rabbis are superior or exempt from G-d’s judgement.

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God is real
God is real: according to the talmud god recited eliazer instructions on how to prepare the heifer.According to the talmud moses was send into the future and didnt knew what was happening in the class
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

Please cite the Talmud tractate for your incoherent claim.

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God is real
God is real: Avodah Zarah 3b and 9

Masechet Menachos 29b
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DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

GIR'S CLAIM:
"G-D recited eliazer instructions on how to prepare the heifer. According to the Talmud Moses was send into the future and didnt knew what was happening in the class." – Avodah Zarah 3b and 9(?)

THE TEXT:
Regarding Avodah Zarah 3b and all of 9...

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO MENTION OF RABBI ELIEZER OR THE RED HEIFER IN THESE TRACTATES. YOUR SOURCE IS FLAWED. TRY AGAIN.

Moving on...

Regarding Menachot 29b:
THE TEXT:
Rav Yehuda says that Rav says: When Moses ascended on High, he found the Holy One, Blessed be He, sitting and tying crowns on the letters of the Torah. Moses said before G-d: Master of the Universe, who is preventing You from giving the Torah without these additions? G-d said to him: There is a man who is destined to be born after several generations, and Akiva ben Yosef is his name; he is destined to derive from each and every thorn of these crowns mounds upon mounds of halakhot. It is for his sake that the crowns must be added to the letters of the Torah.

Moses said before G-d: Master of the Universe, show him to me. G-d said to him: Return behind you. Moses went and sat at the end of the eighth row in Rabbi Akiva’s study hall and did not understand what they were saying. Moses’ strength waned, as he thought his Torah knowledge was deficient. When Rabbi Akiva arrived at the discussion of one matter, his students said to him: My teacher, from where do you derive this? Rabbi Akiva said to them: It is a halakha transmitted to Moses from Sinai. When Moses heard this, his mind was put at ease, as this too was part of the Torah that he was to receive.

Moses returned and came before the Holy One, Blessed be He, and said before Him: Master of the Universe, You have a man as great as this and yet You still choose to give the Torah through me. Why? G-d said to him: Be silent; this intention arose before Me. Moses said before G-d: Master of the Universe, You have shown me Rabbi Akiva’s Torah, now show me his reward. God said to him: Return to where you were. Moses went back and saw that they were weighing Rabbi Akiva’s flesh in a butcher shop [bemakkulin], as Rabbi Akiva was tortured to death by the Romans. Moses said before Him: Master of the Universe, this is Torah and this is its reward? G-d said to him: Be silent; this intention arose before Me.

THE SUMMARY:
This is a famous story about G-d sending Moses 1,500 years into the future to a classroom run by Rabbi Akiva but Moses didn't understand what was being taught. Moses did not (yet) understand that while every future insight may be based on the principles he himself received at Sinai, every generation must apply those principles to CHANGING CIRCUMSTANCES. If the Torah is a guidebook to life, it is impossible that people living over 1,500 years apart would be able to follow the same Torah discussion.

G-d had warned Moses that after his death, the people would abandon Torah. And Moses, or so he thought, was witness to such abandonment. After all, “everything that a seasoned student will teach in the presence of his teacher was already revealed to Moses at Sinai” (Yerushalmi Peah 2:4). If Moses could not follow the discussion, he would conclude that it's not authentic Torah. Moses feared the Torah had been corrupted beyond repair and his strength departed from him.

Just as Moses could not understand Rabbi Akiva, Rabbi Akiva would be lost in today’s Jewish study halls. There were no computers or cars in Akiva's day so what would he understand regarding a Talmudic study session on the use of technology on Shabbat or a discussion regarding the permissibility of inviting one who drives on Shabbat for a Friday night meal?

Even if dealing with a familiar topic, no one generation can exhaust all understanding on any given topic, with each generation adding its own unique insights to the Torah. These insights will often be unintelligible to prior generations, even to Moses himself even though the source of the law is a "halacha leMoshe MiSinai" (a law communicated by G-d to Moses that has no reference in the written Torah).

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