LIES ABOUT THE TALMUD

DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

DON'T BELIEVE THE LIES TOLD ABOUT THE TALMUD. THOSE WHO SPREAD THE LIES HAVE NEVER EVEN SET EYES ON IT LET ALONE STUDIED IT THEIR ENTIRE LIFETIME.

This forum thread is for the sole purpose of educating those that could be potentially misled by the rampant lies circulated on the Internet about the Talmud. In short, neither jesus christ nor his mother are ever mentioned in the Talmud. Below are the claims, the actual text, and a summary.

THE CLAIM:
“Jesus was a bastard (mamzer) born of adultery.” – Yebamoth 49b

THE TALMUD TEXT:
SAID R. SIMEON B. AZZAI etc. [A tanna] recited: Simeon B. ‘Azzai said, “I found a roll of genealogical records in Jerusalem and therein was written ‘Plony’ is a bastard [having been born] from a forbidden union with] a married woman” and therein was also written “The teaching of R. Eliezer b. Jacob is small in quantity but thoroughly sifted.” And in it was also written, “Manasseh slew Isaiah.”’

SUMMARY:
This is claimed to be a reference to jesus however his name is completely absent from the text. The keeping of genealogical records was very common in Talmudic times so that Jews did not marry mamzers and violate the biblical prohibition (Deuteronomy 23:3) “Plony” is a biblical term used similar to John Doe today. Some translations say “so-and-so.” It’s clear this tractate is not about jesus in any way.
NOT ABOUT JESUS.


4 years ago Report
4
DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

THE CLAIM:
Jesus is in hell, being boiled in “hot excrement.” – Gittin 57a

THE TALMUD TEXT:
[Onkelos Bar Kalonikus] called up Balaam from the dead. [Onkelos] asked: Who is honored in that world? [Balaam] replied: Israel. [Onkelos asked:] What about joining them? [Balaam] replied: (Deut. 23:7) “You shall not seek their peace or welfare all your days.” [Onkelos] asked: What is your punishment? [Balaam answered]: In boiling semen.

[Onkelos] called up Yeshu from the dead. [Onkelos] asked: Who is honored in that world? [Yeshu] replied: Israel. [Onkelos asked:] What about joining them? [Yeshu] replied: Seek their good. Do not seek their bad. Whoever touches them is as if he touched the pupil of his eye. [Onkelos] asked: What is your punishment? [Yeshu answered]: In boiling excrement. 

SUMMARY:
THIS IS A STORY. AN ALLEGORY.
Onkelos was a convert who, prior to converting used black magic to conjure up famous villains of history and ask them whether their wickedness saved them in the world to come. In both cases (there is a third case of Onkelos calling up Titus as well) the sinner is being terribly punished in the afterlife while Israel is being rewarded. Presumably, this helped convince Onkelos to convert to Judaism.

The Yeshu in the second case lived in the early first century BCE and deviated from rabbinic tradition to create his own religion combining Hellenistic paganism with Judaism. He is not the man who was crucified in Jerusalem in the year 33 CE.
NOT ABOUT JESUS.


4 years ago Report
3
DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

THE CLAIM:
"Mary was a whore: jesus (actually Balaam) was an evil man." – Sanhedrin 106a

THE TALMUD TEXT:
Balaam also the son of Beor, the soothsayer, [did the children of Israel slay with the sword]. A soothsayer? But he was a prophet! — R. Johanan said: At first he was a prophet, but subsequently a soothsayer. R. Papa observed: This is what men say, 'She who was the descendant of princes and governors, played the harlot with carpenters.'

SUMMARY:
Balaam is Balaam. NOT JESUS. For some reason this is pointed to as a veiled reference to jesus--possibly because the word carpenter is mentioned but not even that makes any sense in the context.

R. Yochanan is saying that Balaam had tremendous potential and started out as a true prophet of G-d.  However, he turned to evil and in the end of his life became a sorcerer (i.e. user of black magic). The story of Balaam and Balak is a famous one found towards the end of the Book of Numbers in the Torah.

Rav Papa is offering a parable that explains R. Yochanan's statement.  Consider a woman who is married to a powerful ruler who leads their people out into battle. She is used to being the wife of someone strong, whose powerful hands can skillfully manipulate a sword and overcome any opponents. If her husband were to die she would still want to marry someone in a similar position of leadership and strength. Even if this widow is continually passed over by those she wishes to marry, she will still strive for her former glory, and will even marry a carpenter who, while not leading his countrymen out into battle, still must skillfully handle tools. Even when the ability to reach her old glory is obviously absent, she will still try everything possible to reach any position that remotely resembles it. It’s impossible to read R. Yochanan's statement as referring to jesus and Rav Papa's as referring to jesus' mother.
NOT ABOUT JESUS.

4 years ago Report
3
DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

THE CLAIM:
Jews gloat over jesus dying young – Sanhedrin 106b

THE TALMUD TEXT:
A certain min said to R. Hanina: Hast thou heard how old Balaam was? — He replied: It is not actually stated, but since it is written, Bloody and deceitful men shall not live out half their days, [it follows that] he was thirty-three or thirty-four years old. He rejoined: Thou hast said correctly; I personally have seen Balaam's Chronicle, in which it is stated, 'Balaam the lame was thirty years old when Phinehas the Robber killed him.'

SUMMARY:
Again Balaam is Balaam, NOT jesus. The similarity is that jesus died in his 30s, and this passage says that Balaam died at that age also but that’s where the similarity ends. Also, Phinehas and Pontius Pilate both start with the letter "P." Even if this passage refers to jesus, which it does not, there is no “gloating.”
NOT ABOUT JESUS

(Edited by DontNeedChrist)
4 years ago Report
3
poetry123
(Post deleted by staff 3 years ago)
amoregrowers
amoregrowers: What a shame! I can not find any valid proof to back up what this "expert" Jesus in Talmud Peter Schafer has said!! It is a streach to just pick and choose talmudic text to twist into some anti christian conspiracy.

I can actulally fine more talmudic text to validate the message of Jesus. So it would seem the intention is to farther divide Christians from Judaism. At best this portrayal of Judaism is antisemitic ,inaccurate ,and disgusting

This is the same backhanded approach to try and validate the existance of Jesus using Judaic sources, while deliberately trying to delegitimize the Jewish people.

It is also funny most christians will reject any proof that alters their "narrative" all the while will cling to any source they can to validate themselves, without any scrutiny of that text..

IMO christianity is the religious "fake news" that is causing divison

4 years ago Report
2
poetry123
(Post deleted by staff 3 years ago)
amoregrowers
amoregrowers: I find it odd that any talmudic rabbi would use anything other then Hebrew.

A lot of claims are off Greek and Latin.. Also some of these claims are based off censored and altered works..

It is definitely the gullible and weak minded that fall for this type of thing... The lying pen of the scribes.......

4 years ago Report
2
amoregrowers
(Post deleted by amoregrowers 4 years ago)
DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

A good little Q & A regarding the slandering of the Talmud.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-there-more-antisemitic-sites-trying-to-spread-lies-and-slander-the-Talmud-than-any-other-OT-or-NT-book

4 years ago Report
3
The flying Squirrel
(Post deleted by DontNeedChrist 4 years ago)
The flying Squirrel
(Post deleted by DontNeedChrist 4 years ago)
The flying Squirrel
(Post deleted by DontNeedChrist 4 years ago)
DontNeedChrist
(Post deleted by DontNeedChrist 4 years ago)
The flying Squirrel
(Post deleted by DontNeedChrist 4 years ago)
DontNeedChrist
(Post deleted by DontNeedChrist 4 years ago)
DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

THE CLAIM:
"Every goy who studies the Talmud and every Jew who helps him in it, ought to die.”
–Sanhedrin, 59a; Abhodah Zarah 8-6

THE TEXT:
Abhodah Zarah 8-6. This quotation is a complete fabrication. Even the reference number is incorrect. It should read "Abhodah Zarah 8a or 8b." A number such as 8-6 can never exist in the Talmud.

THE SUMMARY:
Sanhedrin, 59a is a dialogue between two rabbis, the first of whom does indeed fanatically advocate death for a HEATHEN (not a christian) who studies the Torah (not the Talmud). The second rabbi effectively demolishes his colleague’s argument by pointing out that the heathen who studies the Torah succeeds in elevating himself to the status of a High Priest.



4 years ago Report
2
DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

NOTE: THE ANTI TALMUD FOLKS ON WIRE HAVE YET TO COUNTER OR COMMENT ON THIS THREAD.

4 years ago Report
2
DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

THE CLAIM:
“Jesus is referred to as the son of Pandeira, a soldier. His mother was a prostitute.” – Sanhedrin 67a

THE TEXT:
The Gemara asks: Why did they call him ben Setada, when he was the son of Pandeira? Rav Ḥisda says: Perhaps his mother’s husband, who acted as his father, was named Setada, but his mother’s paramour, who fathered this mamzer, was named Pandeira. The Gemara challenges: But his mother’s husband was Pappos ben Yehuda, not Setada. Rather, perhaps his mother was named Setada, and he was named ben Setada after her. The Gemara challenges: But his mother was Miriam, who braided women’s hair. The Gemara explains: That is not a contradiction; Setada was merely a nickname, as they say in Pumbedita: This one strayed [setat da] from her husband.

THE SUMMARY:
This passage refers to a Jewish revolutionary named Ben Stada or Ben Pandeira who came from Egypt, claimed to be a prophet, led his followers to Mount Zion, and was executed by the Romans, about 100 years after the time of jesus. It also says that christians have long misunderstood this passage as a reference to jesus and tried to censor it or condemn the Jews because of it. Note the legend put about by Celsus, the Greek philosopher, who argued with Justin Martyr in the 2nd century, and who repeated a tale that jesus was the son of a Roman centurion called Pandeira.
NOT ABOUT JESUS


4 years ago Report
2
DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

THE CLAIM:
It’s ok for a man to have sex with a three-year-old. – Kelhubath 11a-11b

THE TEXT:
"When a grown-up man has had intercourse with a little girl...It means this: When a GROWN UP MAN HAS INTERCOURSE WITH A LITTLE GIRL IT IS NOTHING, for when the girl is less than THREE-YEARS OLD it is as if one puts the finger into the eye, tears come to the eye again and again, SO DOES VIRGINITY COME BACK TO THE LITTLE GIRL THREE-YEARS OLD.”

THE SUMMARY:
This is probably the most insidious claim of them all. The words are correctly quoted but completely out of context. This passage is a discussion of the penalties and consequences of adult-child sexual relations. The point being made is when the victim, grows up, the child is to regarded as still having her virginity for legal and marriage purposes. She is not to suffer. The important thing is the discussion is about HOW IT SHOULD BE PUNISHED. In short, Judaism does not, nor has it ever condoned adult-child sexual relations. Anything claimed to the contrary is a lie.

(Edited by DontNeedChrist)
4 years ago Report
1
God is real
4 years ago Report
0
DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

Ok what?

4 years ago Report
1
God is real
God is real: nothing
4 years ago Report
0
DontNeedChrist
DontNeedChrist:

Brilliant.

(Edited by DontNeedChrist)
4 years ago Report
1
God is real
(Post deleted by DontNeedChrist 4 years ago)
DontNeedChrist
(Post deleted by DontNeedChrist 4 years ago)
Page: 12345 ... Last