Jesus in the Passover Lamb (Page 4)

Apokalupto: Deleted for off topic discussion. You have been warned already not to do that.

Angry Beaver: Love lamb

Apokalupto:

The New Testament says that the lamb was slain from the "foundation" of the world meaning from the beginning. Revelation 13:8 The idea was always intended in Gods plan.

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

The very first lamb was sacrificed by Abel and it pleased God. Genesis 4:2 & 4:4 This shows that God is pleased with lamb sacrifice regardless if Egypt made sheep into an actual object of worship.

As we know, Israel was in bondage in Egypt, the lamb was an essential component to them escaping from Egypt alive, for without the lamb not even Moses could lead them out alive since Gods wrath would be on them.

There are a few things encoded in the symbolism of the PL, (Passover Lamb)
1. Sinlessness,
2. Deity,
3. Becoming the object of sin
4. And ultimately cleansing from sin and giving life.

1. Sinlessness

If the symbolism was merely that of an Egyptian sheep god and nothing more then why the need for them to take the nicest looking lamb "without blemish"? Exodus 12:5
and make this "Egyptian god" better? Taking a lamb without blemish for a sacrifice to atone for sin was done for other sacrifices therefor showing that the "without blemish" has nothing to do with any god from Egypt, it's something the God of Israel did and ordained it to be that way because it was representative of something, namely the lamb without blemish represents being without sin, moral perfection.

2. Deity

Since the Egyptians viewed this animal as a god it takes on the quality of being deity in it's spiritual symbolism (for the moment we are not considering it as pagan, merely "deity" so that it can be unpacked and the symbols can have their own meaning and be understood). If it were the literal thing itself, nothing would ever make sense. God would eternally want Israel to eat Egyptians gods to nourish their bodies with protein. It goes beyond that shallow meaning. Keep in mind that Abel sacrificed a lamb from the beginning, this is not a new practice, it has always pleased God and that is why it pleased him here.

3. Object of sin
the very fact that the Egyptians deified it, it became an object of sin especially if they had worshipped it.

4. Cleansing sin and giving life

Exodus 12:22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood (of the passover lamb) that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.

"Ye shall take a bunch of hyssop and dip it in the blood" the blood is a sign that your house was covered and would not be under Gods judgment. Secondarily take note that God told them to use "hyssop" branches to cover the door with the blood. Right now we can already see that the blood was being used for their salvation and you will see how the hyssop was used in cleansing rituals therefor taking the spiritual symbol of cleansing or purifying.

Leviticus 14:4 Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be -cleansed- two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and -hyssop:-

Leviticus 14:6 As for the living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, and the scarlet, and the -hyssop,- and shall dip them and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was killed over the running water: (The cleansing nature of the hyssop and blood together being put over the bird, or in other words being put over us and washing us)

Leviticus 14:7 And he shall sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean, and shall let the living bird loose into the open field. (The the living bird was let loose representing the life of the new believer who is set free and who was cleansed by being “under” the blood of the slain bird/Christ. Take note that the death of a bird was used for the life of another bird, 1 bird had to die for another bird. Same same. Man for all of mankind.

Hyssop was not only used when cleansing from disease, but David figuratively uses it in his Psalm to cleanse him from sin. Psalm 51:7 Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow. – Read the passage, David wants his heart to be pure and clean and figuratively uses hyssop to demonstrate symbolically that cleansing and purifying process.

You see how in the law they dipped the blood of the animal in hyssop, this wasn't only a Passover lamb ritual, and it further demonstrates that the Passover lamb was not just some literal act, it had very deep spiritual symbolic meaning. The figurative cleansing nature of hyssop WITH blood is essential to understanding the Passover. The two together represent "life cleansing blood" because the blood of the lamb represented their salvation from judgment, and the hyssop gives the cleansing symbolism to the blood. Twofold meaning.

Let's take a further look at how blood was viewed symbolically and how it was used.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul.

The life of the flesh is in the blood, therefore the blood represents "life."

Unpacking the symbolism has made it clear and manifest that the NT derived meaning directly from the OT and Jesus fulfilled it to a T.

So we have Jesus without blemish, without sin, who is God manifest in the flesh, two natures, lamb and Deity, man and God, who was slain for our sins by putting the blood on the door post of our hearts so we could live and not be under Gods judgment. He became sin for us by taking the sin of the world and becoming that “object of sin” like it was viewed in Exodus, and condemning it to judgment in our stead.

2Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

In other words, when Jesus was on the cross you saw your sin on Him, He was full of sin when he was lifted up and punished on our behalf. This symbol in Egypt that God used was not without a very deep meaning and in the NT it has nothing at all to do with pagan Egyptian gods. It’s the spiritual and symbolic aspects that tell the message, just as the serpent in the wilderness didn’t actually represent a serpent, it represented Israel’s own sin lifted up on a pole, and any who looked at it were healed from the poisonous snake bites. Same symbolic meaning same message, same truth, the serpent was an object of sin, their own sin, they had to see their sin being punished.

1Corinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:


If you did not have the lambs blood covered over you (your door post) then you would be met with Gods wrath. This is the message in the NT, If we don’t have Jesus blood cleansing us and covering us, and put on the door post of your hearts, then you are under Gods wrath, we would not be saved from Egypt which spiritually bondage and sin.

GeraldtheGnome:

https://outreachjudaism.org/jesus-passover with a backslash at the end of it. It has multiple Bible/Tanakh passages in relation to your forum so surely you won't repeat the same claim again.

Winterson: "Winterson: Please tell me when Jesus was roasted and eaten just like the communal offerings were on the precipice of the exodus. You're focused way too much on the eating aspect. Those dots don't connect."

They seem to me to connect perfectly well. The "eating aspect", as you call it to try to belittle it, is quite simply there in both observances. There is no need for Jesus to have been "roasted" - that is a mere incidental. The Paschal Lamb was and is eaten to memorialize liberation brought about by God. And so is the body of Christ.

DontNeedChrist:

Nothing pagan about that at all.

Winterson: Ha! ha! Okay, touché. The strangeness of the idea is actually acknowledged in the Gospel of John, where it is reported that Jesus lost many followers when he first announced it. Only his close disciples remained. Whether that is historical is debated, like everything in the Gospels.

GeraldtheGnome: There was no need for the word and at the front of the sentence. Jesus isn’t the Passover lamb and he never was because that Jesus does not exist and he never did exist. This is the body of Christ ? No it isn’t, it’s just a bit of food, stuff the symbolic gestures.

mrsmargaret48: Gerald, really truth is not dependent on your or DNC opinions. The true reality of God/Jesus is not going to change, only we can change and choose to acknowledge that reality. God/Jesus is the only truth that endures. Everything changes even religion, we will soon change into dust but the symbolism is an eternal truth made manifest.

GeraldtheGnome: Jesus is not in the Passover Lamb, nor is he the ‘Passover Lamb’ in any way, shape or form, not even symbolically. Why do some Christians have a bad habit of not using a standard form of English ? I ask myself that. It is the truth is not really dependent on opinions, not the words really truth and the words are do not care, not DNC. It is true the that the truth is not based on the opinions of anyone, which includes you as well by the way. There literally are no records that the names God and Jesus were used at the time that the original New Testament material was written so in reality they are both made up. That’s a fact, not an opinion, face the reality of that. I’ve already been told prior to that that I made off topic discussions, what I did was neither a discussion or off topic, the opinion was otherwise though. That’s the reality of it all.

There is no eternal version of the truth, not eternal truth. The Lamb symbolism is just silly, you use the words truth, manifest and reality in the wrong way. I’ve noticed that only the most extreme Christians have done that, it’s mainly the creationists that done it. Anyway enough about the Jesus mythology. I’m hungry, pass over the Lamb please. Thank you. You missed a comma but it is not a big deal, what is a big deal is that you really think that the Passover really not just some silly superstitious belief. Crucifixions happened, not even on story about the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ is true. It’s a religious myth, Christ does not exist and he never did exist.

Apokalupto: No thanks Gerald.

DontNeedChrist:

Yawn.

Apokalupto: The Jews have never given me a substantial Biblical argument against it mrsmargaret48, Gerald is the same, nothing but woke style denial, unable to address Biblical facts.

DontNeedChrist:

I've given you enough substantial evidence based on scriptural facts to fill an entire bookshelf -- but you just deny it all which is your prerogative.

Apokalupto: And where are these bookshelves full of scripturally based facts against the OP supposed to be located? Because it's not located here, that's for sure.

DontNeedChrist:

Not my problem. They've been shared with you. What you do with the information is on you. Own it already.

Apokalupto: Own what, show me?

DontNeedChrist:

Sure, I'll show you the countless conversations we've had over the years. If you haven't retained any of that information that's your problem.

Apokalupto: Ok but I have already looked through every post in all 4 pg of this thread, and there are no bookshelves full of Biblical based facts against the OP. If you have any be sure to post them and address the arguments made in this thread.

DontNeedChrist:

"The Jews have never given ME a substantial Biblical argument..."

I was responding to YOU. If you haven't benefited from any education from our conversations then you have a retention issue. Not my problem.

Apokalupto: You'd actually have to use the scripture to educate. Assuming that I'm just being educated by you all the time is very arrogant, and also just false. And you're right, it's not your problem, so why are you here?

DontNeedChrist:

Same reason as always. To counter false statements regarding Judaism.

Apokalupto: You put more energy into talking big than proving your points from the scriptures.

DontNeedChrist:

You put more energy into scouring Hebrew scriptures for remote resemblances to jesus than actually studying for any educational value or spiritual growth.