Why are some atheists so compelled to tell everyone how evil they think the Bible is?

TheDoctor394: I've been having a bit of a break from getting into discussions here, to, well, kind of preserve my sanity a bit, I suppose.

But I have still been following some of the threads, and having thoughts about a few things.

Questions have been building up inside my mind, and they include this desire some atheists have for trying to tell everyone how evil the Bible is supposed to be. From The Annotated Bible to Evil Bible to just the two-bit anti-religious person who can't stand Christianity, they want everyone to know just how appalling it all is. After all, it promotes and even commands rape and slavery and murder and suchlike.

Now, while I don't deny those things are in the Bible, I, of course, don't think they are commanded or offered in a good light. But for those who think they do, and seemingly want everyone to know about it, my question is - why?

One opinion seems to be that most Christians aren't familiar with these things, or are in denial of them. I don't doubt there are some like that, and we certainly should be aware of everything that is found in the scriptures, not just the "nice" parts. But why is it so important for the anti-religious to insist that everyone see and understand all these things which they believe the Bible promotes? After all, if these Christians don't know about them, then they're obviously not going to do them. At least, not because they think Bible tells them to. Isn't that a good thing?

Why is it so important, from an atheist point of view, for Christians to be aware of these aspects of the Biblical scriptures?

Cenababy: I can offer here; I know most of these things, but, I also understand these things I study. I think the problem is found in John, with The Anti Christ and many antichrists. People are angry, they reject God and so want others to., they see God as turning his back on them due to their own evil deeds, not wanting to accept responsibility or acknowledgement, they don't want to own up to the fact that the bible tells who we are, who we can be. It is a self mirror of sorts, and they reject and hate that. Me-ism is a huge part of the scenario. They think they should live their lives and not be held accountable, OR see people of faith as so stupid to hold on to a God, that has a wrath. Some just find it all grown up to hate on a God they don't believe in...which is just silliness, and trolling if you ask me. None-the-less, perhaps to, secretly they are jealous? They don't have God, we do, they are seperated from God, as God doesn't look upon sin! Eli Eli Lama Sacbachthani!..I imagine they feel the pain of the seperation!

shadowline: To listen to the rantings on this site about the Bible, you would think there was in fact nothing in it other than approvals of slavery, instructions about raping captives, and commands to perpetrate genocide. You're kind of left wondering exactly what literary critics of the stature of Harold Bloom and Northrop Frye, neither of whom had any religious beliefs whatsoever, were reading when they decided that the Bible was among the very greatest literature of the world.

It's not hard to see that this kind of polemic is coming from people who are possessed of a little more than simple disbelief in Christianity. It has the makings of a neurosis. Presumably they don't believe in Hinduism either, but, they don't rant obsessively about the evils in the Bhagavad Gita. To some, Christianity isn't just something you believe or don't believe - it is a dangerous anachronism, a thing which must be fought with whatever weapons are to hand. Hence the "Jesus never existed" canard, and hence this "I can see only six verses in the Bible, the ugly ones" thing.

And, too, it must be said, that TheDoctor is puzzled by it because he is Australian, and I am puzzled by it because I am Canadian. It seems to be an American phenomenon, that being the country in what used to be the Christian West where Christianity is still strongest, and provokes the most reaction against itself. Anti-Christian and anti-Bible polemics would seem rather absurd in the UK, where less than two percent of the population ever darkens the door of a church.

TheDoctor394: Alright, Cena has given the spiritual reply, which I certainly see as having some truth in it, while Shadowline gives the more practical one, which I also see as quite accurate. The "I hate Christianity and just want to bash it any way I can" kind of thing.

But I also want to look at it from a logical point of view. If we ignore the spiritual side of the argument, we come to an extreme lack of logic with the attitude.

If I understand correctly, these people believe the Bible, particularly the Old Testament, promotes and even commands such things as slavery, rape and murder (which, of course, I don't believe at all). They also believe that most Christians (or people in general) aren't aware of this. So, one would think, if the Bible does encourage such things, since most people are not aware of it, they would not be actually doing these things based on what the Bible says. Which is surely good.

So I then wonder why are they making such a noise about it? The attitude is akin to a loud moral group seeing an offensive film about to be released, which has hardly had any fanfare, and is sure to bomb. Rather than just ignore it, they raise a huge ruckus, therefore giving it more exposure and more success than what it would probably have had otherwise.

If the Bible does promote such terrible things, and most people aren't aware of them, why do these atheists want to point them out? It's almost like they're saying, "Look, we don't want you to do these atrocities, but I want to make you aware of them, so you don't do them anyway!"

It's like me going through the Koran and finding a part that I believe encourages another way of killing people, one the extreme Muslims haven't noticed. So I try to tell them that it's there, but no way do I want them to actually do what it says! This makes no sense.

Another way I've looked at all this is the very view that the Old Testament teaches and encourages rape, etc. Are they saying that many people, who have lead decent lives, have suddenly come across something in the OT, have thought to themselves "Gee, God says it's good to rape someone, so I'd better go and do it", or "I see slavery pleases Him, so I'd better get myself one of them."? Apart from the occasional nutter, does this actually happen?

Again, if not (and I'd need a lot of evidence to convince me that it does), why do they make such a noise complaining about such things?

Cenababy: Well several reasons probably. But need computer to type. Lol

Nicotina: In America "Christian" is often equated with good. If a person claims that they are Christian and good then it leaves others to wonder how a so called good person can believe that the vile things in the bible are acceptable.

Cenababy: let me ask this? Why do people mock, and make fun of people that are disabled? You know I think it goes back to simplier terms. Why do athiests make fun of or bash a God they do not believe in? Lack of understanding? Well if others do not believe than I'm not alone? I am angry at a God that would have consequences so I want all others to be too? Why believe in a God I don't or can't belong to? I'm jealous so, let me "BE LIKE SATAN" and push people away from God.

I think there is something to athiest being like satan, and wanting to pull as many people away from God as satan does. If we read scripture it is clear what he is doing. ( I can offer something else, My grandfather was catholic, although my Mom and Uncle didn't attend as much as my Mom does today (btw not catholic), the catholic church was all about guilt, I think my uncle grew up damaged against the church because, he didn't see God working in his life, God didn't protect him and keep bad from happening, so he thought where is God? My Uncle is now agnostic.

what does the internet say about the why's of athiests, perhaps we can look there.

Nico just said: "Christian" is often equated with good. If a person claims that they are Christian and good then it leaves others to wonder how a so called good person can believe that the vile things in the bible are acceptable?

Interesting she said that. Perhaps athiests are unable to understand what most Christians do? If a person claims to be good, how can they believe in the vile things in the bible are acceptable? I think that most christians accept because we accept life now too. Is life not vile sometimes? Look on the news, riots, people who are bloodying up other human beings so they are rushed to hospitals. why? Agenda, anger, etc.

You know GOD never promised things would always go well or for that matter be perfect, in fact, he said that IF we walk with him and obey him "things will go well". not meaning nothing bad will happen, but when those things do happen they will happen less than they could, but if we walk contrary to him the bad will be magnified 7 times. I think there is a hint in here. The vile atrocities were of the evil people, the people who wanted their way, who turned against God and did all kinds of wickedness, including murdering innocent people, people belonging to God.

I don't think christians so much "think vile things are acceptable" I think it is more of, we understand that he is God, he see's and knows what we don't. I myself, know horrible things happened, but when i really thought about it, I asked myself why these things may have happened, the answer for me was simple (although yet hard).....God allowed people to be who they were, and sometimes in order to protect the ones trying to be righteous, he allowed others to be harmed.

Nicotina: Allow me to clarify. In some parts of The Bible things such as slavery are treated as though they are acceptable. Modern Christians would most likely not agree with slavery. I find it confusing that some Christians claim the entire bible is true and must be followed yet there are verses that they themselves would find offensive.

Ephesians 6 NIV
5 Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6 Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. 7 Serve wholeheartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not people, 8 because you know that the Lord will reward each one for whatever good they do, whether they are slave or free.

9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.

Nicotina: Cena stated "I think there is something to athiest being like satan, and wanting to pull as many people away from God as satan does."
Here is an example of where there is probably some misunderstanding. My gut reaction is "wow, Cena just said I am Satan". Thinking upon her statement I see that it is possible that due to her belief in god that she may think that satan is using atheists to try to turn her away from god. She may not be meaning it as a personal insult to me.
Upon reflection, it is highly possible that I have made a statement that sounded like an attack personal against Cena when that was not my intention.

Charles Darwin: I'd be glad to give some of my thoughts on this topic.

One big problem I have with it, and why I often go for the morality argument, is that I truly believe if an ideology of any kind forces you to justify terrible "evil" things, there is a major problem. Doc, you are the only Christian I have *ever* talked to that was willing to admit that many things in the Bible sound wrong, and you do not understand them enough to try to justify them. The other hundreds if not thousands of Christians I've talked to attempt to justify it and say how murder, rape, slavery, etc, etc. was NOT wrong in those cases.

If somebody is going to make the argument that you can't be moral without their ideology/religion, and then justify things that I, an atheist, never ever would because of their ideology/religion, I will point out that hypocrisy. I believe that our innate sense of morality can be very easily eroded when we claim infallibility of an ancient source, and then encounter things that should be clearly seen as morally wrong.

"Why is it so important, from an atheist point of view, for Christians to be aware of these aspects of the Biblical scriptures?"

Here in the USA, Christians are a very powerful political group that uses their beliefs to attempt to pass laws that effect us all, usually based on what they believe to be right and wrong....but as I mentioned above, I don't think their judgement is usually the best on that, because they claim to get their morality from an ancient book full of immorality and will almost always justify it all. I do not like this group, with their sense of right and wrong coming such a bad source for morality, dictating what I can or cannot do, based on their Bible-based assessment of the matter.

Cenababy: Nico, I'm glad you rethought that by no means was my intent to suggest that non-believers are Satan that was not my intent at all so I'm glad you rethought that. I think what I'm trying to say is Christians understand there are bad things in the Bible, however we believe that the Old Testament was lessons in how people can be evil God doesn't necessarily condone it but he allowed it. Yes certainly there are vile things but God gave Man the free choice just like he does today look at today and how vile things are. Now skip to the New Testament where Jesus says that the reason things happened the way they did is because of man in there evilness. Genesis explains a lot then let's look at Romans, Romans I believe is the best way to understand who human beings are and how they can be and how they don't have to be. In my faith in my walk I have learned that I was those things and I no longer want to be those things.

Cenababy: And certainly my other point about Satan is this, Satan is very vindictive and vengeful and because he went against God and God rejected him his whole life's person purpose is to pull everyone away from God that he can he wants people to reject God because God rejected him so the analogy I made is that there are a lot of atheist and or non believers that pull people away from God or at least try to pull people away from God because they are angry or they don't understand or they reject God. That was the purpose of the analogy it was not to offend or insult anyone by any means I used to be secular so why would I say you are a horrible person or a Satan when I used to be secular.

Crash: I see this facile argument from Christians a lot actually. The fallacy of Passing the buck. They blame the evil on man.....oh it's man's fault ...not god's. However they seem to gloss over the fact that god commanded MAN to do these evil and horribly vile things.

Such as Destroying whole cities for the HORRIBLE CRIME OF .....simply NOT believing in god!!! Yup....such horrible evil people.

To answer your question doc, and I'll only speak for myself. There are PLENTY of great things is the bible....no question. However, most , if not all ......are NOT UNIQUE or even ORIGINAL to the Christian religion. That's what a lot of Christians seem to not get.

Christianity ripped off these ideas from cultures that existed THOUSANDS of years before and call it an original idea. Which is SUPER disingenuous and flat out just LYING.

Yet you base your entire worldview around this.



I believe in the golden rule: "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". That is the universal truth I have adopted to guide my life. However it is not an exclusive or original Christian moral...the idea of "do ut des" ( "I give that you might give" ) goes back to the Egyptian story of The Eloquent Peasant and was written as: "That which you hate to be done to you, do not do to another." Similar phrasing of the idea was utilized by the Chinese, Hindus, Persians, and Greeks well before Christianity came into existence. Personally, I like the way Bill n Ted present that truly profound yet simplistic concept : Be Excellent To Each Other & Party On Dudes!


So..stop thinking that the bible is the original source for everything that is good in the world...it simply isn't. Inversely it ISN'T the source of all the evils either...that would simply be a nonsense assertion.

However...the main point is this.....You believe and worship a god...that OBJECTIVELY commands and condones horrible evil things....yet professes to love you. You love a god...that you are commanded to fear. The whole premise of that SMACKS of a spiritual dictatorship. You want to be slaves and sycophants to something you don't even have evidence actually exists!!!

Big red flag to your sanity right there IMO.


The main problem I have, and I think Nico may have touched on it.....it gives "unbelievers" ...Atheists.....a moment of pause ...when we are confronted with someone that worships and believes in a deity that commands and condones such evil horrid things!!

Truly makes us wonder what kind of person you are.

You make justifications......pass the buck...or simply ignore the evil shit in the bible to further the narrative that you want. Which is disingenuous from the outset.

The point is....own the horrid shit in the bible....don't cherry pick and don't think you can have it both ways. You can't.

Nicotina: I think that when a person says "I think there is something to athiest being like satan, and wanting to pull as many people away from God as satan does.". It does their cause no good. Most will see it as I did at 1st. I think most Christians would be offended if someone likened then to satan.

TheDoctor394: Alright... thank you to everyone for some reasonable and respectful replies.

To comment on a couple of things...

Charles... just to clarify I haven't always said that certain things we don't like in the OT are actually wrong. For instance, the invasions God commanded I certainly do not like, but that does not necessarily mean I see them as wrong, since God had His reasons for doing what He did. And, while I do see rape and slavery as wrong or not ideal, my argument is that in no way does the Bible say they're fine. People who think the Bible promotes rape have a severe misunderstanding of a couple of the OT passages, while, in regards to slavery, both in the OT and NT, the writers were living in a culture where it was just accepted. It was a part of their lives, with God coming into that culture to manage it, while Paul wrote in reference to slavery because it was simply part of the world he lived in. And, in both the OT and NT, we can find places where there were positive views on how to treat slaves, which could not always be found in other ancient writings.

Just as a side note, I don't want to get into the wrongs and rights of these topics too much on this thread. Not because I want to ignore them, but ultimately, my question is not about that, but if people actually see them as right or not. Maybe the actual reasons for why we believe what we do could be done in another thread.

But I want to focus on something Nicotina said - "Allow me to clarify. In some parts of The Bible things such as slavery are treated as though they are acceptable. Modern Christians would most likely not agree with slavery. I find it confusing that some Christians claim the entire bible is true and must be followed yet there are verses that they themselves would find offensive."

Indeed, most Christians, if not all, would not agree with slavery. That's because we understand that the Bible does not promote it. It's not saying it's fine. The same with other aspects that are seen as dark and unappealing. Does the average Christian want to keep a slave? Go and rape someone? Go and murder or stone someone? No. Because we don't believe the Bible actually teaches us to do those things. How many "normal" people go about their lives routinely, then suddenly see something in the Bible, come to certain conclusions, and respond with, "Oh, I'd better go and rape my wife" or "I'd better go and get me some slaves." Apart from maybe the occasional nutter, surely no-one.

So it goes back to my initial question that, if Bible-believers see that these things are not actually sanctioned by God, why do some people get so intense about condemning the Bible and Christians in these regards? They might find these things quite repulsive, and maybe we can be seen as inconsistent, but what actual harm are these Biblical aspects doing the world, if the majority of humanity does not see them as commands at all?

Charles Darwin: The problem is that the Bible says much of this is commanded by a being who is supposed to be perfectly moral, therefore any of direct commands by God, including the Moasic Law, which is supposed to be law directly from God for a specific group of people, cannot be seen as immoral....Including the keeping of slaves, killing homosexuals, killing people who worship another God, killing kids who curse parents, etc, etc. How can you ever say that these things are immoral if a perfectly moral source commanded them at one time?

Of course Christians do not think that is still the law, but they can't reject any of that stuff as immoral, because of the source the commands/laws came from, and that is a problem.

I think it is important to be able to reject immorality as immoral and not be forced to justify it.

TheDoctor394: I can understand people seeing Christians as inconsistent with such views, and not understand why we think what we do, but my question remains, why get so heated up about it and condemn the Bible, and Christians, so ferociously, if we don't actually do things like keep slaves and kill people?

Crash: Christians DO kill ppl Doc....apparently you don't watch the news. However it's not about if you do it or not......YOU love and worship a being who says it's ok.....so by extension you are tacitly agreeing it's ok.


That's the problem. It speaks directly to your character.

Charles Darwin: Doc, I get heated when I see good people justify terrible things....when I know they'd never do so if those terrible things were not in their so-called holy book. I see that very often, and it seems to me that it is an example of a religious ideology eroding the morals of good people.

Cenababy: Doc ty, I agree with your last post!!!!!

TheDoctor394: Alright, thank you, Charles. What I would like is evidence that many people are encouraged to do terrible things like murder, etc because of the Bible.

Certainly, it happens occasionally. As I said earlier, there are nutters about who can use the Bible to suit their own ends. But they can use anything if they twist stuff around enough. If the Bible really does promote such things, there should be millions of Christians all over the world causing incredible misery and death because they believe the Bible tells them to.

I need to see the evidence for that.

Cenababy: Darwin you are incorrect and not understanding what doc is on about.

Crash: "Nutters around the world who can use the bible to suit their own ends.) Dangerously close to a No True Scottsman Fallacy Doc.

"If the Bible really does promote such things, there should be millions of Christians all over the world causing incredible misery and death because they believe the Bible tells them to."

That's simply a non sequitur Doc.

There are many reasons why that ins't happening.

A.) Christians know they would go to jail if they attempted it.

B.)Christians don't know it's there

C.) (and I believe this is the most likely)... Christians know it's WRONG....so they don't do it. They know....by their own SUBJECTIVE moral code...that the bible and god advocating for those things is MORALLY wrong.....!!!!

And if C.) is the case...it would seem their own morality is better than the bible...and by extension gods.

Charles Darwin: I understand Doc's questions quite well, Cena, and am simply explaining my reasons for having problems with the immorality in the Bible.

Doc, let's take my username as a quick example...Charles Darwin, on his voyage aboard the HMS Beagle was tasked with keeping the captain, Robert FitzRoy company to prevent him from going insane over the long voyage. One night, Darwin and FitzRoy got into a very heated discussion about the morality of slavery...Robert FitzRoy cited the Old Testament of the Bible as evidence that God was okay with slavery, to justify owning slaves in 1800s England. Darwin disagreed, FitzRoy took it as Darwin questioning the Bible/God and he actually kicked Darwin out of his quarters and told him he was to be kicked off of the ship at the next stop. A few days went by and the FitzRoy eventually cooled off and allowed Darwin to remain aboard the ship.

But the point is, this was a time when England was divided on the issue of slavery....Those who were pro-slavery often took the approach of looking into the Bible for justification. Darwin's family was eventually instrumental in stopping the slave trade in England many years later, but it was resisted largey on arguments such as the one FitzRoy made on the HMS Beagle. If that sort of immorality wasn't in the Bible, I suspect slavery could have been eradicated earlier than it was.

TheDoctor394: Alright, thank you for that, Charles.

Certainly, there are people who have used the Bible to support wrong ideals. I don't deny that at all. Witch burnings are another example.

But there are also people who have had very good ideals from Christianity and the Bible. Bear in mind that, in regards to slavery, there were Christian organisations who lead the way in getting rid of slavery, as they saw all humans as being made in God's image, as being made equal. They got such morality from the Bible. As far back as the fourth/fifth century, Saint Augustine objected to slavery on Biblical grounds. There's a Wiki article on that here - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_slavery

In the light of this, I find it hard to believe that it's the Bible's fault that slavery lasted as long as it did, especially as slavery has been around long before the books of the Bible were ever written.

Charles Darwin: Right now in the USA, very liberal Christians make the argument that homosexuals should be accepted into their churches with open arms since they are also children of God, and are loved equally by God....But this is happening at the same time that society as a whole is moving towards a place where these people are granted equal rights. In the past, the Bible has been used as the justification to kill them, deny them rights, etc., and for many of the people, the Bible and what God supposedly said in it is the only reason for them to treat these people immorally.

I think society progresses, and Christians are forced to find a way to work it into their belief system...When society already has momentum one way, that is the branch of Christians who win out and the belief is what becomes dominant. We will see much more acceptance of homosexuality by Christians in the USA as time progresses, even though the Bible has been one of the main things oppressing them, because there is societal momentum....Exactly the same as the slavery thing back in the day.

Now, I should quickly clarify something....It's not that I do not believe people can't find good principles from the Bible. I do think they can. But I also believe they can come to these same conclusions without relying on a source that also comes with the baggage of OT immorality.