The Pope Strikes Again! (Page 3)

chronology: Interesting comments Zan, very interesting.

Zanjan: As for those who've experienced injustice, it doesn't matter what excuse people use for having been caught in a scam. How one responds to it is where the real story is.

Some wont even admit it because they're too embarrassed to let anyone know they were so naive. Others wont admit it because they don't want to make waves; they're afraid that the offender will lash out and make their lives even more miserable for having exposed them.

Well, no man is an island. We've all been scammed, at least twice. We've all been hurt through betrayal and damaged through wrong-doing. We've all had a misplaced trust. Each scam should teach one something new. Third time's the charm, eh.

When this current Pope kicked the Mafia out, did he look concerned that he'd be put on their hit list? Did he worry about possible Vatican bankruptcy? Nope, he's looking calm, relaxed and well-rested.

If we don't put ourselves in harms way, that will obviously reduce the number of disasters we experience - it doesn't totally eliminate them. Life is a risk. We fall down, we get back up again but this isn't quite enough because the only result is a lot of banged up heads. What we should aim to learn is how to become invincible before the next disaster strikes.

chronology: I think this is one reason I always have such affection for the church of England. The members there just go along without any Drama or scandal and sail on to whatever awaits them, if anything, in the life after death. It is all so jolly civilised and entirely civil. They seem fortunate in that the ' crazy types ' all head into the other so called churches, Gays also prepare the company of other churches.

Zanjan: Indeed, if one is looking for a church or religion, it's like going to a new country and trying to find a good dentist or excellent doctor. Where do you start? There's tens of thousands of them! You end up relying on word of mouth.......or hearsay. In the end, you only find out the reality by attending.

I think if you're sincere, you'll ask God for guidance *beforehand*, then wait for a sign. God will send someone to introduce you to something suitable for what you want.

By the way, I love the times we live in - you can go on the internet and click on any doctor's name to see how patients have rated them and their comments - yaay!

chronology: Unfortunately Zan, scam artists in religion know only too well how to play gullible people with cons like that. I have heard it so often. ' Wow I wuz sayin ow interested in religion I wuz and den wow! I just append to meet dis man ooo told me about a church in Town ' I could reply ' yes and some sleaz bag there just happened to show you how to fill in the Direct debit form for your bank. And when you are layed off from your job and have no income you will be surprised how you never find anyone sat next to you in church and people avoid even speaking to you ' sorry Zan I think some one other than God is playing idiots like that.

shadowline: This thread has moved quite a ways from its original subject, hasn't it. Not that that matters, since it was just a kind of anti-Catholic bigotry. So much better to hate ALL forms of Christianity, the way chronology does. Go hate! It's the only way.

chronology: Well it seems some people have their own interpretation of my posts here. I think I spoke very highly of the church of England. I have never to my knowledge criticised the Catholic Church, or any other church for that matter, but hey don't let the facts get in the way of smearing people.

chronology: As an aside shadow, in about 30 minutes or so I will be passing as I have to a Jehovahs Witness Hall, do I hate them? No, would I ever speak to them? No. The only thing I find irritating about those people is that I have to see and hear them as I have to use that road for work and shopping. If I could I would use another road so I never had to see or hear them. This happens three times a week.

shadowline: The facts I was referring to, chronology, were you're saying that all religion is seen generally as contemptible and laughed at. That is a falsehood, in the first place, and wishful thinking in the second. And I don't think it is hyperbole to say that it is the wishful thinking of a hatemonger. It is, however, something of a pattern with them (i.e. hatemongers) to do everything in their power to merit the title, and then claim they don't merit it. So you fit right in, it seems to me.

chronology: Well, now the accusations are being ramped up not only am I seen as a ' heter of religion ' but also a ' hatemunger ' of religion. A ' hatemunger ' is a ' dealer ' in hatred. I have no such inclination to hate anything at all.

You say religious people are not seen as feeble minded chumps. Well while I do not see them as such I assure you many do.

Zanjan: Didn't you say you were a Christian, Chron?

chronology: Sorry Zan I have been watching some True TV Shows about women who kill their husbands. With one woman she became addicted to Prescription Painkillers. Still can't get my head around how much Opium America uses. 80pc of the world's Opium is used by Americans. I know America is the Alpha Dog and gets first bite of all the good things in life but it is chowing down on some dittzy food with Opium.

Yes I did say I believed in Jesus Zan.

Zanjan: Fentanyl, the opium of the people.

In the cities here, the governments layout money to buy Naloxone kits (antidote to drug overdose), then cruise the streets looking for the homeless who've OD'd. That's their solution for users - heroic measures. Why? They just go out and do it again. Somebody's not getting the message here.

chronology: Most hard drug users here are ex Afghanistan veterans. They live rough and take heroin.

It is just the freedom of the open road and the joybang they get from the junk they love. It seems best to just leave these guys alone instead of messing in their lives. Not washing or having to clock in at a job, just drifting into a opium dream in a squat is paradise to them. Sooner or later their money will run out and they are going to have to work like everyone else. A lot of them go onto disability and settle into a routine of prescription drugs. But they get into trouble because of not paying their rent or utility.

Must have had bad experiences in Afghanistan or something.

happywesty: From Shadowline:

"Catholicism is the oldest form of Christianity" That is one of the biggest lies in all of Church History. The church under Peter was not "Catholic. It was not filled with men wearing robes, not marrying women, etc. That came in with the later departure from the truth. All of the baloney about men not marrying has caused the priests in many cases to go gay, seduce girls, etc. The Bible is clear in that "it is not good for man to dwell (or live) alone."

So much incorrect teaching on this. Peter was NOT the first "Pope." The here is no teaching by Christ of a supreme leader on earth. He leads EACH pastor Himself. Not through Rome ... but through the leading of the Holy Spirit.

The term bishop is merely the same as pastor or elder. They are the same person but with three different meanings. Similar to the Trinity.

There were always independent churches in Church History apart from the Catholic "universal" state run church. They were persecuted for centuries for NOT believing what the Catholics said was "truth."

Yes, the Protestants overreacted ... even had their own state church too... It was the independents that gave us godly churches in the US and England and Europe. Not the dead churches of Popery.

happywesty: Clarifying the term "robe" - well yes they men of that day wore a "robe" but I am speaking of the apparel that the Catholic priest wears which if anyone reads Hislop's "Two Babylons" knows that it is symbolic of the heathen-pagan religion of Horace and other false religions, Catholics nicely adopting those in so that they could get a congregation to show up .... along with idols that were supposed to be "Christian" as well.

chronology: Yes America and Australia have outstanding church groups all doctrinally sound, South Africa also has fine churches. Fine peaple who often have to contend with Gay protection laws and abortion laws they find so objectionable. Some churches in the U. S. also have to warn their youngsters not to get involved in the blood drinking that is a constant fad today with young people and not so young people. The New Testament makes it clear blood drinking is on the same level as soddomy and adultery. In Europe and England there is no warning at all about blood drinking but it is just as common as in the U.S. And we are talking about human blood.

shadowline: "There were always independent churches in Church History apart from the Catholic 'universal' state run church. They were persecuted for centuries for NOT believing what the Catholics said was 'truth.' "

I'm curious as to what this refers to. "Always" would seem to suggest from Apostolic times on, but there was no "state run church" in the first or second (or third) centuries. Who was being persecuted then? By whom? As for after the Reformation, which happened in the 16th century, it would be correct to say that everybody persecuted everybody in that period, whenever they got the chance. No one church had a monopoly on that.

I seem to have caused a lot of consternation by referring to Catholicism as the oldest form of Christianity, but it was simply a historical description. I wasn't trying to make a case for the greater authenticity of Catholicism, I was merely pointing out that things are a little different in the oldest form to what they became in forms that developed later.

Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy share the honours of having an unbroken historical continuity going back to the earliest form Christianity assumed. That's why they are similarly resistant to innovation - they have both inherited the concept that the Christian faith is a timeless gift of the Spirit which should not be innovated on. Protestant churches tend to see Christianity as something which can be changed in some ways, because changing it was how they began. That's why they have been so quick to jump on the fashionable bandwagon of dropping Biblical morality concerning homosexuality.

I repeat, happywesty, Alexander Hislop was nothing more than an ignorant 19th century bigot. No historian takes him seriously today. I would respectfully suggest that you get your head out of his writings and into something intellectually respectable.

chronology: Hislops work is sound. You seem to to have this whinging disposition to describe everyone who does not agree with you as a bigot or hatemunger.

Zanjan: Actually, it's true that Christians picked up a number of pagan symbols; these were seen as folk traditions, naturally incorporated into local culture. They weren't practiced universally until late in the game - that is, when commercialism took charge.

If you go back far enough in history, you'll see that the pagan ideas were actually ripped off from God's religions, a few colourful touches added. After longer than anyone can remember, people in God's religions scooped them back in. This is why you find a golden thread of truth winding though all religions.

It's hard to find fresh symbols for universal dynamics, especially when one of them is absolutely perfect, like the snake.

chronology: Year's ago Zan I used to read the writings of Cromwells Soldier's during the Civil War in England. The words and comments used by Cromwells men were identical to the words used 300 years later by Hislop.

American independent churches have no reason at all to doubt Hislop in his work.

To Shadow. I apologise for my comment if you found it offensive. U.S. Authorities insist that people be given freedom to say what they want to without being insulted.

Zanjan: In Canada, freedom of speech is in our Constitution as well; it includes a clause that says spreading hatred is a crime. This usually means stuff like writing nasty/threatening graffiti on walls and passing out hate pamphlets.

Otherwise, there's no law against insulting anyone unless it's slander - that's probably because we're fairly diligent at self-policing on that front.

chronology: Zan with respect, America is the only country on earth with freedom of speech. The Statue of Liberty holds her lamp high. She is a small light in a dark world.

Zanjan: Oh yeah? What, in practice, is freedom of speech?

Our people - those in North America - have published a dictionary of PC words you must say to appropriately express yourself; it's constantly being updated as fashion changes, a new issue every year. You WILL experience duress if you don't comply.

This is because some people are retarded. Oopsies, in my heart, I intended to say "retards" but thanks to the PC dictionary, I corrected myself.

chronology: Zan Canada is not a country of Free Speech. Yes U.S. Federal Authorities have guidelines about how people can express themselves but this is to prevent bullying of minorities like Muslims and Gays and people should respect folks in Washington for this. But Canada has shown how such concerns for minorities has been badly interpreted to restrict free speech.

The United States still allows people to raise concerns for Gay people's spiritual welfare, try speaking out like that in Canada. Again we should be thankful for such freedom of speech in the U.S.A.