John 1 (Page 3)

Zanjan: I have ALL the Words of God that were ever put into print, anywhere anytime; I haven't rejected any. You can't say the same.

"your words are just opinions,that's all you have......."

Where in the Biblical text can you quote that? If the above are *your own* words, they're just your opinions too; and, you're implying nobody should hear them. You could be right.

Apokalupto: ^ that's an argument for the cause of not having an argument with evidences. This is counter productive..ive never...nvm

let me help you out. A "debate" or a discussion requires proofs and evidences and facts to be presented, without them they're not proven in the discussion/debate, they're just words that no one can heed. I have shown you as well as have others, plenty of evidence and facts of what is actually said in the Bible for my/our debate/discussion with you. But instead you have resorted to insults without presenting biblical facts or evidences or addressing directly our evidence for our arguments, you just hand wave them.

Apokalupto: Ironic that you like to ask people to prove what their saying, but you refuse to prove anything you're saying. Fine by me, you can dig your own ditch. Id just much rather have a real discussion with some meat on it.

Apokalupto: Zanjan - "I have ALL the Words of God that were ever put into print, anywhere anytime; I haven't rejected any. You can't say the same. "


lol..................................................

Zanjan: I'm sorry you feel insulted - that was never my intention (3-D book could have been taken as an insult or jest, whichever you prefer) Perhaps you can forgive that bit of playfulness. It was never my intention to use scriptures to insult you. God doesn't work that way.

What you call "evidence" may not be evidence of anything to others. A lot of various forms evidence has to be collected from different sources before it can be merged and called "a single fact". Christ, Himself, used the OT and stories of real life situations to do that.

Undoubtedly, you think Jesus had the ability to shed light on the books of the OT - there's plenty of evidence for that; and, by association, you could borrow that light when discussing things with the Jews. Meanwhile, as a Christian, YOU can't shed light on the NT. You could go deeper if you want, but not beyond.

Let me explain: Only a successive Prophet can open previous Books. Jesus couldn't explain the Quran or Bahai scriptures, so neither can you. Consequently, ONLY a Prophet of God to come after Jesus can disclose the hidden meanings in the NT; and by association, only HIS followers can borrow that light when discussing things with Christians.

Due to this principle, I can only introduce my own religion - I can't expound on it - only on all those religious Books that came before. Since I'm well-deepened in my religion, and there's a TON of history between 1 AD and now, I'm quite able to share that.

Apokalupto: @Zanjan You haven't proven anything actually using the Bible yet, like Jesus and the apostles always did, you just talk around them and avoid presenting facts in scripture as much as possible while everyone else uses the Bible to prove what God has said therein.

(The Topic) The word was God and the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Muhammad is accursed, anti christ, and a liar according to the Bible.

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

If you deny that Jesus is God, you are a false prophet.

If you deny the death burial and resurrection for our sins you are a false prophet.

Accordingly, allah, the quran and muhammad are anti Christ, liars, and false prophets, and accursed, it denies everything about Jesus.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The thread is about john 1 and the divinity of Christ, i'm not going to run off into space with you. If you cant properly prove your arguments using scripture then ill just have to remind you about the topic once again that you have not disproven using the Bible.

Zanjan: You haven't proven anything actually using the Bible yet,"

Who said I had to? The NT is its own proof. You see this Internet - we don't need the NT to prove that. It proves itself. Once something comes into existence, it supplies it's own testimony, even if some don't understand it.

Cena opened this topic saying Jesus was in the OT. I pointed out there's no place in the OT that states Jesus of Nazareth's name. At no time is there any record of Jesus of Nazareth living before the year 5 B.C. or after the year 65 AD. There's no place in the OT text that says "the New Testament" or "the Gospels", or mentions the names of any of the Apostles.

You can't prove something that doesn't exist. Thus, Cena's argument didn't stand up to test.

However, the OT has prophecies of the future - a prophecy is about something or someone that doesn't yet exist, or an event that hasn't yet occurred.

Therefore, you can't use anything in the OT to prove one of its prophecies has been fulfilled, UNLESS one if its own authors stated it was fulfilled - such as Joseph's dreams, "the writing on the wall" episode, that David wouldn't be able to build the temple, or the exile of the Jews etc and so forth.

Likewise, if the *new* prophecies found in the NT were fulfilled before its last entry, one of it authors would say so. Otherwise, the NT can't prove that.

Zanjan: By the way, The Topic is John 1. This Book is about what John has seen and what John believes. We can't compare John to Moses or to Christ.

Furthermore, when John opens his address with that line, he's NOT quoting Moses or Jesus Christ. John is not reciting the Word of God, since there's no record of anyone else saying this, no cross reference, not in the OT or the NT, and, the Apostles were pretty careful to repeat His exact words.

Apokalupto: @Zanjan You still haven't disprove what the OP says about john 1

(The Topic) The word was God and the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Muhammad is accursed, anti christ, and a liar according to the Bible.

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

If you deny that Jesus is God, you are a false prophet.

If you deny the death burial and resurrection for our sins you are a false prophet.

Accordingly, allah, the quran and muhammad are anti Christ, liars, and false prophets, and accursed, it denies everything about Jesus.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The thread is about john 1 and the divinity of Christ, i'm not going to run off into space with you. If you cant properly prove your arguments using scripture then ill just have to remind you about the topic once again that you have not disproven using the Bible.

Zanjan: Read the second paragraph in my previous post. John recognized who Christ was but it was impossible for Him to describe His Divinity. He didn't have that level of comprehension because he was a man.

The lesser can't properly appreciate the merits of someone greater - that can only be comprehended by one who is the same or above them in rank and station.

I've never had any intention of disproving the Bible - Christians are NOT the Bible.

Apokalupto: If John didnt understand, why did he call Jesus God? John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

Apokalupto: Seems like John really knows what hes talking about

briansmythe: I thought the Name might give it away Christ ian , But some people like to Twist do what who knows why, Oh thats right the Devil does
lol

Apokalupto: Zan is just trying to impose her religion of islam into other religions. Shes obviously mislead.

Apokalupto: But as we know according to the God of the Bible, Islam, Allah and his prophet Muhammad are anti christ, accursed, liars, false prophets.

Zanjan: "Seems like John really knows what hes talking about"

How would YOU know? You probably don't even know what language he was speaking when he said that. It certainly wasn't from Genesis. If it was in Hebrew, that's a serious problem. It simply doesn't translate well to English. Didn't work much for Greek or Latin either.

Hebrew, Genesis 1: Bereshit Bara Elohim..........

There's a disagreement because there's no English word for Bereshit (prounced baresheet) Thus, there has to be an aproximation for the complete word.

The word for word translation is "In beginning created/creating God-plural."

Obviously, this is senseless to us. We have to fill things in, and this could possibly change something unintentionally. While ancient Hebrew was simple, it was rich with meaning. So, translation must be interpreted. You'd have to know the intent, culturally, and from the speaker's mind.

Bara is a masculine verb so 'he" was understood. Elohim is God-plural, not to mean more than one God but " the Power (singular) over powers (plural)", roughly "God of gods"

Therefore the interpreted translation is"

In [the] begininning [of] [he] created/creating God of Gods........."[the] heaven and [the] earth".


Though its a bit more sensible, something is still lost in translation. Yet you think nothing would be lost about what John intended to say, after all this time??? Like his words were perfect and incorruptible?

Zanjan: John didn't call Jesus God. If anything, he would have called Him "Master" or "Rabbi", according to Jewish custom. John isn't calling anyone anything in that passage.

I'm not a Muslim and you know it.

Apokalupto: Zanjan, my personal knowledge has nothing to do with the fact that you have not proven your point using scripture, which point is John 1. We're all waiting, yet we all know you can't do it.

The thread is about john 1 "In the beginning was the word and the word was God" i'm not going to run off into space with you. If you cant properly prove your arguments using scripture then ill just have to remind you about the topic once again.

What this means is Muhammad is also out of a job automatically, so it's very important for you to prove your point.

Muhammad is accursed, anti christ, and a liar according to the Bible.

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

If you deny that Jesus is God, you are a false prophet.

If you deny the death burial and resurrection for our sins you are a false prophet.

Accordingly, allah, the quran and muhammad are anti Christ, liars, and false prophets, and accursed, it denies everything about Jesus.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

GOOD LUCK.

Cenababy: Jesus....6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not

Cenababy: John is clearly talking about Jesus!

Zanjan: AA: "you have not proven your point using scripture, which point is John 1. We're all waiting, yet we all know you can't do it."

I asked you to cross-reference John's words in scripture - specifically, John 1:1. Everyone is waiting yet they know you can't do it. Doesn't it sound just a little silly that one should be waiting for something they believe will never come?

"1John 2:22............He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son."

Maybe I misspoke - maybe you SHOULD cling to some words. I suggest the word "and".

We can see it doesn't state the Father IS the Son.

Zanjan: Cena, John talks about Jesus throughout the whole chapter. Just not in every sentence.
You showed that by citing where John talks about the other John.

Apokalupto: I guess you and i both know you cant prove your point then. @Zanjan You still haven't disprove what the OP says about john 1

(The Topic) The word was God and the word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Muhammad is accursed, anti christ, and a liar according to the Bible.

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

If you deny that Jesus is God, you are a false prophet.

If you deny the death burial and resurrection for our sins you are a false prophet.

Accordingly, allah, the quran and muhammad are anti Christ, liars, and false prophets, and accursed, it denies everything about Jesus.

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

The thread is about john 1 and the divinity of Christ, i'm not going to run off into space with you. If you cant properly prove your arguments using scripture then ill just have to remind you about the topic once again that you have not disproven using the Bible.

Zanjan: Oh, I think I proved my point very well. Thus, there's no sense in dwelling on it, like re-posting the same thing every opportunity available.

Apokalupto: Why wont you prove your point? Why do you choose to continue talking if you cant actually prove your point?