Isaiah 7:14 the virgin birth prophecy (Page 2)

Apokalupto
Apokalupto: DoesNeedChrist So facts don't matter? The arguments don't matter? How the Hebrew tense works doesn't matter? The fact that the prophets use past tense for prophecies doesn't matter? Does anything matter to you? I don't blame you for being so grumpy, you can't address any of the facts.

Merry Christmas.
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ponit
ponit: I'm still waiting for a response to my question "what Hebrew word in ישעיהו ז' י"ד means 'will conceive'."?

Also, it may or may not be true to say that "'Perfect' is a type of past tense, it appears to be pretty common for prophecies", but WHICH WORD are you saying is part of a "prophecy" that is expressed in the "perfect" tense? The truth is the only word in the prophet's statement which refers to the future in any way is וְקָרָאת, which is the 2nd person feminine singular of the future tense and means "you [speaking to a female] will call". There is no verb at all governing the adjective הָרָה ("pregnant", the 3rd person feminine singular "[she] is" being merely implied, and יוֹלֶֽדֶת ("is giving birth" is a present participle. Consequently the grammar of the verse is stating unequivocally that the female in question:

(1) was already pregnant,
(2) was in the act of giving birth when the prophet was speaking, and
(3) was instructed by the prophet that SHE was to perform the "naming" ceremony herself.

So what word is supposed to be a "prophecy" expressed in the "perfect" tense?
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Billie Ingle
(Post deleted by Apokalupto 4 years ago)
Billie Ingle
(Post deleted by Apokalupto 4 years ago)
shadowline
shadowline: "Jews did not translate the OT or the Septaugint or whatever you call it. Jews only translated the torah- the first 5 books. The 'nach' or the prophets and writings were translated by Christians."

Where is the evidence for this? The Septuagint was translated by Jewish scholars in Alexandria in the first half of the first century BC. It included the prophets before Christianity even existed. It was regarded as authoritative by Greek-literate Jews in the Eastern Mediterranean in the first century AD, which is what the first three evangelists were.

Christianity has continued to respect and value the scholarship of the learned and devout Jews who produced the Septuagint ever since. Which is why they regard the use of the Greek word for "virgin" to render "alma" at Isaiah 7:14 to be canonical.
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poetry123
(Post deleted by staff 3 years ago)
shadowline
shadowline: You are mistaken, poetry. Jews translated the entire Hebrew Scriptures, for the use of Greek- literate Jews in Alexandria and elsewhere among the Middle Eastern Diaspora of that time. The authors of the first three Gospels were of that community.

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poetry123
(Post deleted by staff 3 years ago)
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: @poetry does it matter to you if the Septuagint we have now was translated by Jews?
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poetry123
(Post deleted by staff 3 years ago)
Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Fair enough.
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shadowline
shadowline: Interesting little fable, poetry, but, as far as I know, it is not true. For the moment we will use the following authority:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septuagint

"The Septuagint (from the Latin: septuāgintā literally "seventy"; often abbreviated as 70 in Roman numerals, i.e., LXX; sometimes called the Greek Old Testament) is the earliest extant Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures. It is estimated that the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, known as the Torah or Pentateuch, were translated in the mid-3rd century BCE and the remaining texts were translated in the 2nd century BCE. The Septuagint was the Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament and was in wide use by the time of the story of Jesus and Paul simply because most Jews could no longer read Hebrew. For this reason it is quoted more often than the Hebrew Old Testament in the New Testament, particularly in the Pauline epistles, by the Apostolic Fathers, and later by the Greek Church Fathers."

If you were under the impression that Christians translated everything other than the first five books, well, there weren't any Christians at the date here given for that translation. And exactly who other than Jews would be translating the Hebrew Scriptures into Greek in the 2nd century BC I confess I do not see myself. I don't think pagans were very interested.
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poetry123
(Post deleted by staff 3 years ago)
Jaguar Essence
Jaguar Essence: Wikipedia is NOT a reliable source of knowledge, and is important to at least bring THREE different reliable sources of knowledge.
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shadowline
shadowline: Very well, Essence, show me three sources of information that even you regard as trustworthy, and that I can regard so, that say that any part of the Septuagint was translated by anyone other than Jews. I'm listening.

As for the Septuagint being corrupt, that is an unrelated matter. We were speaking of who did the translation, not how well they did it.
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Jaguar Essence
Jaguar Essence: Shadow, I don't have to show you nothing, it's called research, and research must be unbiased, your question your answer.
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shadowline
(Post deleted by shadowline 3 years ago)
Jaguar Essence
Jaguar Essence: In other words, I'm not here to educate no one.
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shadowline
(Post deleted by shadowline 3 years ago)
Jaguar Essence
Jaguar Essence: Sure, however how many languages do you speak?
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shadowline
(Post deleted by shadowline 3 years ago)
Jaguar Essence
Jaguar Essence: Shadow, sure we are, aren't we?
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Billie Ingle
Billie Ingle: Mary was the wife of Joseph which gave Joseph except for Jesus 4 sons, James, Joseph, Jude (Judas) and Simon. For that, he had to have sexual intercourse with Mary what makes she isn't a virgin at all + how can a woman that gave birth be a virgin If I never have sex go to a sperm bank and artificially fertilizes me am I also a holy person because I'm pregnant but never did it.

Like i say Mary gave life to Jesus but also to 4 others and for a part Jesus is a lie because the messiah has to be from the bloodline of David from his father's side because God impregnates Mary and not Joseph. Joseph isn't Jesus biological father so not the blood of Joseph but Mary and the mother can't pass her bloodline to her son so the 4 sons of Joseph could be the Messiah even King Solomons son but not Jesus.

Saint Sarah patron saint of the gypsies, daughter of Mary Magdalene and her father unknown.

The family tree of Tamar says

Mary Magdalene & Yeshua Ben Yosef

Child: Sarah which means in Hebrew Princess (forgotten child of the "sang réal", the blood royal of the King of the Jews).

the Roman Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh's director for communications sees the notion of the Church conspiring to cover-up the truth about a Jesus bloodline as a deliberate piece of anti-Catholic propaganda.

He sees it as part of a long tradition of anti-Catholic sentiment with deep roots in the American Protestant imagination but going back to the very start of the Reformation of 1517

a liberal Christian perspective, they were unable to determine whether Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a matrimonial relationship due to the dearth of historical evidence. They concluded that the historical Mary Magdalene was not a repentant prostitute but a prominent disciple of Jesus and a leader in the early Christian movement.
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Apokalupto
Apokalupto: Billie your entire post is off topic because i'm not perpetuating the false Catholic doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity, that's not supported by scripture and nor is this about what line the Christ comes from. You didn't read the OP did you?
(Edited by Apokalupto)
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Billie Ingle
Billie Ingle: Joseph had except Jesus 4 sons if Mary was his wife who else can be the mother than Mary to get 4 sons you need to have intercourse so probably she wasn't a virgin at all. Those 4 can't be the cousins because Mary gave birth to them so how can her son Jesus be the cousin of her 4 other sons she got with Joseph
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