Do you guys believe in spirits, or ghosts? (Page 3)

Zanjan
Zanjan: I'm very fond of science and also study ALL scriptures of all religions - independently, so I don't pick up other people's perceptions. If something is true, all the scriptures will agree with it. That's one way of verifying a truth. Another way is that science will also agree.

I look at scripture from God's point of view - that is with God's eye, not my own...and not from a worldly standpoint. That's how He says we are to approach it. What I don't understand in one scripture, I understand in a different one just by the re-arrangement of wording. (Our brains aren't all wired the same)

Baha'u'llah, the most recent of the Manifestations of God, speaks in modern language so what He conveys is very obvious to us and detailed, answering the new questions that moderns have on their minds - questions the ancients never thought to ask or had reason to.

We're all enlightened and affected, to some degree, by that tremendous and vast release of knowledge, as God's Will for mankind clearly unfolds.
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Live_By_Common_Sense
Live_By_Common_Sense: That is cool. I like science, and I like to put science and the study of religion together. It makes it interesting. I just like the benevolent philosophy, and the direction where benevolent people are trying to lead you too. Its pretty interesting to learn things from many perspectives.
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garrylawson3073
garrylawson3073: utter rubbish , same as not walking on cracks , bunch of old wives tales.
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Live_By_Common_Sense
Live_By_Common_Sense: Zanjan, do you believe that science disprove religion? Mostly on to Christianity.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Science has never intended to disprove religion; quite the opposite - it searches for the reality of things, for cause and effect. So it is with the religious - they're bound to hook up somewhere.

It's said that math is the purest form of scientific truth while holiness is the purest form of religious truth. Both agree that "truth", in itself, is relative so, there is much more to learn.

Actually, most scientific exploration was inspired by scriptures, the rest was driven by curiosity and need. Yet the results came about more by fortunate accident than planning. Scientists don't question accidents; whereas, the religious aim to identify their underlying cause and timing.

Science has its limitations in that it's confined to study of the phenomenal world - that is, it only has the tools to identify and explain aspects of the natural world. Whereas, religion addresses the supernatural world - that is, it has the tools to explain the *why* of all things.

Both are entirely different fields of study but not separate from the cities of knowledge.


(Edited by Zanjan)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Each religion of God contains a prescribed *measure* of knowledge. The older the religion, the smaller the measure is by comparison. No one has the means to process more than they could apply in the contingent world; and, the world of the ancients was very small - therefore, the measure had to match the needs.

As it's written, 'everything superfluous flows out of a full heart' (and mind).

For example, it would be pointless to talk about China to a people who didn't know the planet had an eastern hemisphere or a great ocean. Giving them a map of the sea route to get there would be useless when all they had was rafts, like a coracle. Mind you, a slight passing mention might inspire a few to invent sails and a stronger boat.

We're always looking to the future - God assures us there is one and drops a few clues but doesn't give it all away. He's saying, 'first things first - build this for now'.

When you ask me, personally, about Christianity, you'll get *my* perspective of its measure, specific to the Revelation of Jesus Christ. To *me*, it's a teaspoon compared to the 8 ounce cup of the Revelation of Muhammad and, compared to the ocean of the Revelation of Baha'u'llah. We, as individuals, are mere drops in that ocean.

The above has nothing to do with the actual state these religious communities have been in at any time in history - their state entirely depends on its members overall conduct.

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Zanjan
Zanjan: A thousand years ago, a Sufi mystic said "When I was young, I played with dolls but I've put them away because now I have the child".
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David Nathaniel
David Nathaniel: You can believe or disbelieve in God's existence but until God *makes Himself known* to you then you cannot *know* that God exists.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: How do you propose He does that?
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David Nathaniel
David Nathaniel: A believer in God can only become a *knower* when he/she as received the divine unction of the spirit of God. Onlookers are non the wiser. Christianity by law established has got nothing to do with this mechanism for they are *"antichrist"* as described in the bible.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Interesting you used the term "unction". (visions of greasing the rails) That speaks of a religious ritual performed by some priest. Baptism is a ceremonial agreement to abide by the instructions - it's a declaration of belief and faith.

We're all taught about God as an introduction to all things spiritual. Basically, one *meets* God, as one might *meet* a person by watching a documentary about their lives or reading a biography. A believer is one who sees Him from the nose bleed seats in a grand stadium. You could say you arrived...........you can't say you shook His hand.

Whereas, *to know* is to be in that one's presence - that is, to have entered their court. God calls but you are the one who must approach, of your own accord - no one can do that for you. If God permits you to enter, He commands that by breathing new life into you, via the power of the Holy Spirit. To know is to understand and, to understand, is complete certitude. By no means does that event occur by ritual of baptism.

"Onlookers are non the wiser."

Quite the opposite - onlookers are shocked and stunned by the transformation. That's why it's written "You shall know them by their fruits".

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Live_By_Common_Sense
Live_By_Common_Sense: Zanjan, why in Christianity belief that the people of the church are called sheeps? What makes the people of Christianity be symbolized to that animal?
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Well, ancient religions were very nature based - it's what the people knew best. They understood the spirit traits of different animals and tended to apply them to people who show identical traits - neither good or bad, just a form of recognition.

We still do that today, however, it's usually taken as an offense......unless you're a "Furry".

If you go waaaaay back in time to ancient Greek myths, the God's drove herds of "cattle". People had to be "pushed" in a direction. This was before the time of Noah. Moving forward, in religion, they referred them as "goats", who will eat almost anything so had to be urged on before they stripped the land bare.

People were trying to relate to the Kingdom of God so God's Messengers used a familiar visual to help them get the idea of how spiritual relationships work.

In the Old Testament, herds are passe. Pushing and driving is no longer necessary. It uses "flocks"......these are led so, have leaders The lesser prophets, priests and ministers in religion were like the shepherds, who looked after their flocks - the flocks, being the followers in a religious community. They moved through traditional fields.

The True Shepherd is the Highest class of Prophet - He is perfected, a Revelator of God.
Thus, the flocks not only must be led to safe and nutritious fodder, and protected from predators, they must be led into new territory - ground they've never seen before and foods that are new to them. That's a long march. There's no room for error here.

What creature would God use to describe those believers 2-3 thousand years ago?

Sheep are gentle and mild mannered so, they're vulnerable to aggressors, who interpret that as weakness. Thus, they must band together for safety in numbers. That's nature's way. Sheep aren't very alert - unlike deer, a wolf or snake can sneak in very close to the flock, even inside it, and they wouldn't notice until it's too late.

A young, inexperienced sheep can wander off from the flock and lose its way, just by nibbling at the grass and never looking up. When panicked, they can stumble and get easily trapped. The Shepherd must leave the flock to go find the lost ones and bring them home. While sheep are as important as any other livestock, the New Testament uses this animal because it doesn't fight back.

In my religion, we're flocks of "birds" - not needing one-on-one attendance, were very alert - good vision and sense of smell.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Live_By_Common_Sense
Live_By_Common_Sense: I truly believe we are led by spirits somehow and someway. Either it is humans doing it, or we are led by a higher entity. Because I have encounter in many different aspects of coincidences and a faith calling. For me, I consider myself just an average guy with no purpose in my mind, but to roam, work, and live a normal life.

So therefore, I seen things that is deja vu, dream things that looks clean and pure, and have felt some kind of ghostly presence around me. Spirits/Humans/Angels, or whatever maybe, got me thinking I am going crazy, but really there is someone out there either watching me, testing me, or just being entertained by my actions and reactions in life.

So Zanjan, please explain to my in your religion what do spirits really mean to you?
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Zanjan
Zanjan: I wouldn't use the word "spirits" in that way. I'd use "souls". There was a time when people used those two words interchangeably but we're better educated now and more articulate. Nevertheless, old habits and notions die hard.

Definition of "spirit: an animating or vital principle, a character trait, an attitude, a mood, a quality of life, a trend, a theme, a mentality, to name a few.

Definition of "soul": the incorporeal essence of a being, particularly the identity of man

We're now able to differentiate between a thing and a life, between an object and a nature. We understand that a personage will have a soul AND a spirit - neither are tangible, neither are physical objects.

There are numerous usages for spirit but technically, only one for soul. When we speak of soul music or a soulful performance, we're saying it comes from the depths of the heart and mind - that is, it's fully authentic. Pure.

So, when you feel someone is watching you, that there's a presence near you, that's the field (aura) of the soul and its influence on another.

For example, I've sometimes felt this just as I was receiving an "inspiration" - that is, suddenly a thought, idea, wisdom, solution or perfect words just fell from my mouth at the right time. That didn't come from me - it was something I didn't know. There's no doubt in my mind it was 'given' telepathically, not dredged up from old memory.

I credit this to souls who were aware of me, who were near me - there to help me out. I've always felt they were souls in the hereafter. My religious scriptures say that those who are near to God have this power. They influence the arts and sciences.
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Live_By_Common_Sense
Live_By_Common_Sense: I believe what you say is true. I will tell you, that even animals can be taken over by "souls". Because one time I heard a noise through the window, and I was about to head outside to check it out. Right when I opened the front door, I saw a skunk looking straight at me, like it knew I was going to go out. It stood there for awhile, while we had a staring contest, and few seconds later, it ran off to the house that was across from our house. It was at night and it was blurry, but I kind of believed that this skunk was a shape-shifter, or just an animal that was being controlled by another soul. I was in fear of what that thing was.

That night, I was living in agony in loneliness. I just thought something or someone was trying to get in touch with me
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Zanjan
Zanjan: All animals have a 6th sense - that is, they pick up on certain things in strange ways and can sense certain things in advance. Humans are the same, albeit this isn't a strong feature in many.

No one knows how that works; it's thought to be chemically related, which might well be true, since that's one form of communication and information-gathering many animals use. Unlike humans, they don't deny their gut instincts.

I learned from the Natives that for every poisonous plant that grows, the antidote is growing within a thousand yards of it. A sick animal, who accidentally ate something poisonous, will often go straight to the remedy and consume it. Science has proven this true.

When I was young, my family lived on a street that faced a creek valley; only wildlife lived there. Countless times, injured and orphaned animals would come out of the valley, straight to our yard - never anyone else's yard along that street. They'd stay there until one of us came out of the house to help them. My mother would always send me to get the dangerous ones.

Something told them we'd be the only ones on that street who'd help. I've heard of stories like this elsewhere, where the wild life deliberately walked past other dwellings to get to one particular residence.

There's nothing unusual about the skunk - like squirrels, they're always looking for safe shelters to make a nest so, are great opportunists. My SIL had a whole family of skunks living under her front steps. They called SPCA to get them out and had to treat the area afterwards to prevent other skunks from following the trail.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Long story short, we're all equipped with some faculties we're unaware of; we call them "psychic abilities". They're normally latent but, on certain occasions, something triggers them to temporarily activate.

Scriptures in my religion affirm this; however, said abilities are primarily intended for use in the next world. Thus, I doubt we'll understand them until we get there. In my experience, these powers are never available to anyone who would apply them for any purpose other than good.

We are all servants of God; He can work through us, each according to their own receptivity and capacity. My thinking is that the very presence of these powers are the reason humans first perceived the existence of God.
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Live_By_Common_Sense
Live_By_Common_Sense: You are saying people use these powers for altruistic purposes. So there such thing as angels going all around the world, helping the ones that keep their faith in benevolent souls. So to say if there is someone struggling with loneliness and hardship, that person will be taken care of from someone that has a good intent to help that person out, in anyway possible, by using psychic abilities.

Power can come from human mind-set, and maybe even technology can go so far in to able to correlate with our mindset that we are also being watched remotely. To the ones that are fighting for the good, and keep the fight in a courageous diplomatic manner, we are facing the type of judgement for us to pass on as work, or be in peace with God.

Choosing sides as to which road we want to take. The bad or the good, or the bad in with the good, good in with the bad. Such philosophy we portray, to live like someone that is fearless but wants to bring up the society in a better fashion. No corruption, no disease, and no decay. We live to nurture and we practice and take action to discipline and give to the civilization that pursue the freedom and intent for the good of others.
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Unicornspoison
Unicornspoison: I believe in Ghost because i saw him
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nachocat
nachocat: Once you have experienced spirits or angels it is pretty hard not to believe.
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Live_By_Common_Sense
Live_By_Common_Sense: I never fully experienced it, but I felt some kind of presence. If I literally seen an angel or spirit, than I would be fully convinced. But I know for a fact I seen a demon. Glowing pair of red eyes.
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nachocat
nachocat: Yes, these beings are real. We are spirits, but we inhabit human bodies. But even more fascinating I believe there are hybrid type creatures which can shift from physical to astral forms, like bigfoot and dogman and perhaps gnomes and similar creatures.
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Live_By_Common_Sense
Live_By_Common_Sense: nachocat. I kind of believe you on that. I may experience animals that has the sense of knowing human intellect. The way dogs act around humans, they can sense what human emotions are. My theory would be the dog is filled with a soul. I still don't know the difference between a soul and a spirit. But yeah, I can sense that animals are being controlled through their emotions and mental state.

The story I told earlier gives me the chills, because I may have encountered with a shape-shifter, or just a skunk that is being controlled. I believe I am in tuned with nature that the nature is showing me that I am connected with them.
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chronology
chronology: A man once told of being in Africa in the 19 20s. He told how he once watched a Witch doctor stand alone. He then began spinning and then he vanished. In his place stood a little fox. The Fox then ran away.
The details of this story are hard to find. But the man insisted that the witch doctor had shapeshited into a fox.
Africa also has many stories of leopard men. Men who can change into leopards.

How true all the stories are who knows. But the people who reported these stories were reliable people.
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