What Are Abrahamic Religions? (Page 5)

Auphirah
Auphirah: I am dancing with joy, freedom, truth and power. Ghostgeek give me a hi five(smack)!
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Auphirah, you do know that I live on a mist shrouded, cloud covered, island? Not the sort of place that breeds people that give hi fives. If you're lucky, you might get a growl, but a smile; never.
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BERNY xP
BERNY xP:
It was previously stated in this thread -
"The first born son of every Jewish family was supposed to serve as priests.
Jesus was a first born son."

The first statement is inaccurate according to Jewish teachings.

Talmudic tradition teaches us, the first-born acted as officiating priests in the wilderness, until the erection of the Tabernacle, when the office was given to the tribe of Levi (Num. iii. 12, 13, 45-51; Zeb. 112b; compare Onḳelos to Ex. xxiv. 5). 

Priests were male members from Aaron's family as he was a Levite.

Since the office was given to the tribe of Levi, the first-born son of every Jewish family in the time of Jesus was NOT to serve as a priest. To the contrary, if from any tribe other than the tribe of Levi, one was NOT permitted to be a priest.

My understanding is Jesus was from the tribe of Juhda and would not have been permitted to be a priest according to law. An arguement can be made that Melchizedek was a great priest and not a Levite. Taking a Christian perspective Jesus being greater than Melchizedeck could be a priest. According to Jewish law however, Jesus would not have been permitted to be a priest unless he was a Levite. Him being first-born is not relevant to priesthood if he was not a Levite.
(Edited by BERNY xP)
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shadowline
shadowline: Hebrew monotheism probably derives from a crisis in the worship of Yahweh that followed on the Babylonian conquest of the early sixth century BC. The question why their God, who had saved them from slavery in Egypt, would allow his Temple to be destroyed and his people to be carried away into slavery once more, inevitably posed itself. The only answer was that he was angry that his people were worshipping other gods alongside him. The origins of the written Bible, date from the return to Israel, when such thinking would have been very current. This would be why the formulation of the monotheistic idea first took the form of warnings that Yahweh was a jealous God and would not have gods other than himself worshipped by his chosen ones.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Berny, you proved my statement was accurate, thanks. I wasn't inferring that Jesus was a Levite or destined to be priest. He was a Rabbi - a teacher.

I was speaking of the quality given to the first born - a very high status if male. Has been like that for millennia in most cultures, especially in regard to how inheritance is distributed.

Every religion experiences the eventual drifting away of its membership to pagan/heathen way of life and belief. No one is exempt.


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Zanjan
Zanjan: Auphirah, Freud was a psychiatrist, nothing else. He wasn’t a linguist, geologist, anthropologist, archeologist or even a religious scholar. Why would anyone credit him as an expert in anything to do with the Bible?? I’m pretty sure he knew less than we do.

All new religions rose out of a societal base which had an old established religion. The Egyptian Dynasties changed their beliefs many times and one Pharaoh destroyed the priesthood and its temples, moving the capital to another place.

Egypt was no different than any other country in that respect – the advancement of a civilization requires positive change. When it stops, that civilization crumbles.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Ghost, Atlantis is has been found -> the Island of Santorini is what’s left of Thera. Sonar has mapped the sunken part of the land; it was exactly as described.

Soil cultures, rock outcroppings and hotsprings in the water which have high iron concentrates, turning the sea mud red, also patches of its water verified. Also size was determined, confirmed the types of crops they grew. Wall murals discovered on Santorini and in Egypt, describing the harbor and towns and specific artifacts. They had writing on clay tablets. Maybe these were a people who worshiped a volcano God.

http://www.livescience.com/4846-eruption-thera-changed-world.html

This is the link for lava along the Egyptian shores – the Sinai was part of Egypt in ancient times.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/04/070402-egypt-volcano.html

“Pharoah Akhenaton and Moses……”

The Bible says Moses was buried in the valley of Moab (Jordan, east of the Dead Sea). Whereas, Akhenaton’s mummy was taken from his Egyptian tomb and is now in a Museum. While he lived around the same time as Moses, it’s conceivable this king was the first King Moses influenced. Worshiping the sun’s light isn’t the same thing as worshiping its disk.

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Zanjan
Zanjan: Since people can't get the established religions right, how would you expect Egyptologists to know anything about how their ancient religions were practiced?

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shadowline
shadowline: Aren't you being a bit ingenuous, Zanjan? You said:

"The first born son of every Jewish family was supposed to serve as priests.

Jesus was a first born son.

Just a thought."

That, surely, is suggesting that Jesus could have served as a priest. Berny corrected you on that point. You should welcome such enlightenment. It's helpful.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: No, I was speaking to the quality and rank of first born son. I think I know what I was saying, Shadow. If I'd meant anything else, I'd have said so. All you had to do was ask, not accuse.

There have been scientific studies done on a wide range of families with siblings. Always, the first born is the most successful of the lot; studies on families of famous people show identical results. Almost all of them were males. Mind you, the studies were done in the venue of a patriarchal society.

Since that's also true in my own offspring, I can hazard a guess why that is. If I apply it to my own siblings, it works similarly - unfortunately, our first born male is developmentally delayed so one would have to interpret success differently. I believe he overcame great odds against him. If we use success *in the world*, it falls to the second born, which is me.....and I was, drastically more than my siblings.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Having said that, some might take offense - this doesn't mean younger siblings can't be successful too. It means one shouldn't be competitive and jealous over others' success because such feelings will hold one back from their own.

The same is totally true for religious groups. We are a spiritual family, one shouldn't bite the neck of another.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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shadowline
shadowline: Alright, I have no problem with your squirrelling out of having been corrected because you can't admit you were wrong. I'm not perfect either.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: sigh~
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Can I join the party? There's nothing I like more than correcting Zanjan.

Zanjan, that notion that lava reached Egyptian shores has, it seems, been rebutted by archaeologists working on the site of Tell Hebua. Sounds like somebody burnt the fort down, producing a lot of wood ash, not volcanic ash. As for the "lava", it seems it amounted to some small pieces of pumice, a light stone that can float for months on the sea. All the details to be found, some way down, at:

http://www.blogs.hss.ed.ac.uk/science-and-religion/2014/02/26/thera-egypt-exodus/
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Still, I do sympathise with you Zanjan. Shadowline does a good line in being irritating.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: That wasn't ash they found it was lava.........which burned down the fort. It happens.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: You contradict the people working at the site? If Shadowline is irritating, you are egotistical, Zanjan. Shame on you.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: One will have to change some dates to make the explosion of Thera fit into the life of Moses. I'm not entirely sure we can trust the dates of either event to be fully accurate.

The article you supplied, Ghost, wasn't written by anyone at the site......and Dr, Hawass was a very highly respected and very picky archaeologist who had no patience for sloppy work. It's also very easy to learn what starts a fire.

Shame on yourself for not knowing that.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: For anyone who doesn't know, this is what we are arguing over:

"My suspicion was that the second minority view is the correct one. And indeed, my further investigations corroborate this. Archaeologists working on the site confirmed that they do not interpret the above evidence in terms of the Theran eruption affecting Tell Hebua. The ash that was reported back in 2007 probably has a human origin, perhaps coming from a military defeat, and the pumice was almost certainly collected from the everyday flotsam and jetsam washed up on the Egyptian seashore. Quite a lot of this kind of pumice has been discovered in Egyptian archaeological sites, and (even worse for the Thera theories) it originates from a variety of volcanoes that erupted in the Bronze Age, not just Thera. All this means that it’s looking unlikely that there’s any substance behind the 2007 headlines which claim that Thera destroyed Egyptian cities. We are back to reading the Exodus narrative in the old tried-and-trusted ways of historical-critical analysis."

This is to be found on the University of Edinburgh website, not some flaky outfit:

http://www.blogs.hss.ed.ac.uk/science-and-religion/2014/02/26/thera-egypt-exodus/
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Dr Mark Harris ( who wrote the article ) is the course manager of the master's programme in Science and Religion at the University of Edinburgh. He is especially interested in areas of physics which have direct impact on religious belief, and vice versa. His main research topics are the interpretation of miracles and of creation.
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: As for the date of the Thera eruption, science places it before 1600 B.C. while the archaeologists like to date it a hundred years later.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Almost every expert agrees Thera blew sometime around 1500 B.C. A course manager is no expert in earth sciences or archaeology, regardless of where his interest lies. To my knowledge, "Science and Religion" is not a university faculty.

Tell me how physics has an impact on religious beliefs. This otta be good.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: The boffins with their radiocarbon dating have put a fair bit of work into putting a date on the Thera eruption. Seems they found an olive branch, or something like it, buried by the volcano, and used that to date the event. I think they date it to round about 1620 B.C. As I said before, the scientists and the archaeologists are divided by about a century on the likely date.
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Zanjan
Zanjan: Funny how scientists always disagree with each other's findings. They must be using different radio carbon machines. They did find the residents grew wheat crops and the soil was very rich before the eruption but they haven't found a single body. Seems they rightly left town, abandoning faith in the volcano god before it got angry.

Now, for proof that Moses lived at the same time.
(Edited by Zanjan)
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: It is reckoned that the inhabitants of Thera/ Santorini were given ample warning of what was about to happen and left. Probably due to earthquakes. Some returned at one point and started repairs, but left again. Hence no bodies.
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