What Are Abrahamic Religions? (Page 4)

Zanjan: No, Ghost....Homo Sapien isn't smart enough to de-bug his own intelligence, much less make an artificial one. This is why they make good comedy, especially when they suggest self-replicating machines are a good idea.

Zanjan: That scientists are foolishly spending millions and millions on inviting alien intelligent life to come to earth should show you how badly they need it. They'll have to get past Trump first!

ghostgeek: Trump as the last best hope for humanity? There really is no future for us then. We are all doomed.

Zanjan: That's not quite the way I meant it.

Zanjan: Although, I have to admit I'm kinda longing to see Trump and Putin meet.

ghostgeek: The pair of them should do great at cultivating atomic mushroom clouds.

shadowline: No, he (Freud) does not say that Yahweh was a volcano God. He says that Hebrew monotheism was an influence from the Egyptian cult of the sun initiated by the Pharoah Akhenaton. That is an interesting view, but, as I understand it, not widely agreed with today.

ghostgeek: Are we reading the same article Shadowline? I am referring to what is on page 34 of "Moses and Monotheism" by Sigmund Freud, to be found at:

https://blogs.commons.georgetown.edu/orientalism-spring2011/files/Moses-and-Monotheism0001.pdf

The ninth line down says this:

"Yahweh was unquestionably a volcano god."

ghostgeek: It seems clear enough to me, but then, I haven't an axe to grind.

Zanjan: The Bible doesn't mention volcanoes, ash falls or lava - these people were familiar with all of them, having suffered the fallout along the Egyptian coast and northern Sinai from the explosion of Thera in the Mediterranean sea a couple hundred years before the time of Moses.

If Mt Sinai were in Arabia and it was volcanic, how could its effects be felt or even seen from Egypt when its more than 500 miles away with the wind blowing eastward? How did Moses get the people to follow His religion and lead them out of Egypt if there was no volcano in Egypt?

Scientists say it was a sudden climate change from wet to dry with the heat rising. None of the plagues happened simultaneously. Beginning with the red algae bloom, a domino effect occurred. The death of the first born has been attributed to fungus in the grain storage; the eldest ate first so, got sick first.

Of course, the Bible could have attributed "first born" to something other than what people think it is. I mean, there's something might fishy about God passing through a town and not knowing who was a Jew (Israelite) and which house they lived in. They had to mark their doors with blood of the lamb - sounds mighty Christian.

Some Jews say the lamb was worshiped as a deity in ancient Egypt and they believe the first born took up arms against pharaohs troops, killing many of them because they were tired of the plagues and Pharaoh's resistance to let the Israelites go. Psalm 136: 10

God asked Abraham to sacrifice his first born son.

Moses said to Pharoah: ""Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."

The first born son of every Jewish family was supposed to serve as priests.

Jesus was a first born son.

Just a thought.

shadowline: As far as axes go, ghostgeek, yours is the most overground one I've ever seen. You seem needlessly desperate to make the claims of Biblical religion go away, and have latched onto this volcano thing as your ace in the hole with which to do it.

You don't have to obsess on volcanoes to make Biblical religion go away. Most people in the modern West don't have any religion, most intellectuals consider Christianity to have been well and truly deconstructed by modern disciplines of thought. None of that has anything to do with volcanoes.

Loosen up, man. Live your life. Stop fixating on volcanoes.

As far as Freud is concerned I admit haven't read him for years, and I was remembering the major upshot of his argument in Moses and Monotheism, which is that Hebrew monotheism was an inheritance from the Egyptian cult of the sun initiated by the Pharoah Akhenaton. Whatever Freud may have meant by calling Yahweh a volcano God, it wasn't his principle point in that essay, and his principle point would tend to render any input from volcanoes a minor consideration.

Auphirah: The literature is below to read: Moses and Monotheism very interesting, Also read the following: The Passover Plot by Hugh Schonfield. Religion beliefs all begin in Kemet/Egypt/Moors. Enlightenment, Truth, Freedom and Wisdom are very important. The lies that I have been told by Christianity is appalling and hidden knowledge in plain sight.

Moses And Monotheism - Internet Archive
https://archive.org/details/mosesandmonothei032233mbp

shadowline: Gee, I don't know, Auphirah. There's a lot of good New Testament scholarship around these days. "The Passover Plot" doesn't really qualify. That was a hit back when it was published, but, I think it's generally seen as a bit of a joke today. About on a level with "The Da Vinci Code".

Auphirah: Have you read the following literature:
1. The Light of the World: A Reconstruction and Interpretation of the Life of Christ by Grevill Cooke

2. DT Niles : As Seeing The Invisible

3. Jim Bishop: The Day Christ Died

4. Sholem Asch; The Nazarene

shadowline: Of those I have read only The Nazarene (which is of course just a work of fiction). Don't think I've ever heard of the others, but I can look for them.

ghostgeek: Not only did Freud say that "Yahweh was unquestionably a volcano god," he also stated that "there are volcanoes that may have been active till recent times along the western border of Arabia." He then goes on to suggest one of these "must have been the Sinai-Horeb which was regarded as the home of Yawweh." That all seems pretty plain to me. Freud was making the claim that the "Mountain of God" of the Bible, Sinai-Horeb, was a volcano in Saudi Arabia.

So, Shadowline, please explain why you think the great man was wrong.

shadowline: I didn't say he was wrong. I said that the principle point of Moses and Monotheism was that Hebrew monotheism was an inheritance from the Egyptian cult of the sun initiated by the Pharoah Akhenaton. Surely you find that interesting? Did you read Moses and Monotheism, or did you just comb it looking for references to volcanoes?

ghostgeek: Zanjan, if you have evidence that the eruption of Thera affected the coast of Egypt I would be very grateful if you would share it with me. To date I have found nothing that would suggest the Egyptians were incommoded by that cataclysm.

ghostgeek: So even you, Shadowline, admit that it is possible that Mount Sinai was a volcano. That is progress.

Worship of the Aten, the solar disk, has been suggested as the origin of "Hebrew Monotheism." It has also been postulated that Pharoah Akhenaton and Moses are one and the same person. I have my doubts on both counts.

ghostgeek: There is nothing to suggest that the early Hebrews were monotheists.

shadowline: I think you're right there, although there seems to be a possibility that Moses was originally an Egyptian folk hero. As for Sinai ever having been volcanic, that should be easy to discern, shouldn't it? Surely vulcanologists have some information on that? It doesn't sound like something there could be differing opinions about.

ghostgeek: Sinai is not a vocanic region.

shadowline: Hebrew monotheism took a few centuries to develop. Why it did that is an interesting question, whenever it happened. It was a very unusual idea in the ancient world.

Auphirah: HMMMM! Enlightenment is the path to truth, freedom and wisdom! Great discussion with respect, honest, knowledge, learning and sharing. Awesome!

ghostgeek: It is my opinion that the crucial event was the overthrow of the Babylonian Empire by Persia. The Persians had by that time converted to Zoroastrianism, one of the world's oldest monotheistic religions. To my mind, it is logical to think that the Persians would support that faction amongst the Jews whose religious ideas most closely aligned to their own.

From the Biblical account it is clear that both Hezekiah and Josiah tried to impose monetheism on Judah. Both failed. It required Persian muscle to accomplish that task. Jewish monotheism is a product of Persian overlordship.