Near Death and Out of Body Experiences (Page 14)

lori100: comment on nde video------I have a friend who was totally blind, and he related to me when he suffered cardiac arrest. He told me he came out of his body and saw everything in the hospital room with total clarity. In short, he went to the upper corner of the room and saw every single detail, what the doctors and nurses were wearing, an accurate description of medical equipment, right down to signs behind his bed, and the shoes his doctor wore! He soon started down the long white tunnel, with no pain, no feat, nothing except love and belonging. He could sense without question his late mother and even his passed pet dogs were waiting for him. He was told he had to go back for a short time to finish up things, but all would be okay as they were waiting anxiously for him. He came back into his body suddenly, and a few days later he returned home.

Upon hearing the account, his attending physicians and nurses were floored, to say the least. His eyes were, in fact, opaque, so what he told them was, in fact, real and accurate. I asked him what he wanted to do. He said that he wanted to go back there as he was more than tired of dialysis, and after losing two legs to diabetes, he had enough. He stopped dialysis a few days later after hosting a big party for his friends. He passed quietly knowing he had to move on.

At his service, I told others of his experiences, and his girlfriend backed up my statements. We knew he was finally at peace, and that he had returned home.

ghostgeek: Hard on the girlfriend, then?

lori100: probably

David Nathaniel: When you are dead you are dead, man does not have an immortal spirit in his mortal flesh. "Immortal soulism" is not biblical and makes a mockery of the resurrection.

lori100: the bible was edited many times

David Nathaniel: Correct! ​The bible was written by man but the idea that requires faith is that the original authors of the scriptures did so with the inspiration and guidance of the Holy Spirit of God. The translated bibles are a problem for there are mis-renderings of words and passages over the centuries which the bible warns will take place and at least the original and the translated scriptures agree on this point. To be truly wise to reality one must study the holy scriptures in their original Hebrew and Greek forms.

lori100: people's experiences are real

David Nathaniel: People experience a flat Earth but are still deluded about living on a spinning ball.

lori100: death is not the end

David Nathaniel: Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the judgment:
Rev ch 2 v 11,
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the ecclesias; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

ghostgeek: Worry about it when you've popped your clogs. Until then, say "Sod it" to all beliefs.

Zanjan: David: "To be truly wise to reality one must study the holy scriptures in their original Hebrew and Greek forms."

Perhaps you'd like to share your digital version of the original with us.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

If your soul has been destroyed, you can't be hurt, since you don't exist. Then how is it that some desire non-existence and long for oblivion?

David Nathaniel: The dogma of an immortal soul in mortal sinful flesh has eaten out the marrow and fatness, the flesh and sinew of the doctrine of Christ; and has left behind only an ill-conditioned and ulcerated skeleton of Christianity, whose dry bones rattle in the "winds of doctrine" that are blowing around us, chopping and changing to every point of the compass. The apostles taught two resurrections of the dead; one at "the manifestation of his presence"-EPIPHANEIA, tees parousias hautou; (1Thess 4:14-17; 2Thess 1:7-8; 2:8) the other at the delivering up of the kingdom to God at the end (1Cor 15:24; Rev 20:5) of the dispensation of the fulness of times. But this did not suit the theory of the dogmatists. They resolved the first into what they term "a glorious resurrection of spiritual life in the soul;" and the second into a re-union of disembodied ghosts with their old mortalities to be sent back whence they came. In this way they reduce the second resurrection to a very useless and superfluous affair. Their systems send "souls" to their account as soon as death strikes the bodies down. Some torment them in purgatory, or in an intermediate state; others send them direct into unmitigated punishment; while both, after they have suffered for thousands of years before trial and conviction, re-unite them to their bodies and if it be asked for what purpose? System replies, "to be judged!" Punish souls first and judge them after! This is truly human, but it is certainly not divine justice. The truth is, that this article of the creed is brought in to defend "orthodoxy" against the imputation of denying the resurrection of the body, which would be a very inconvenient charge in the face of the testimony of God. But this will not avail; for, to believe dogmas that make the resurrection of the mortal body unnecessary and absurd is equivalent to a denial of it. In saying that there was no future resurrection, Paul charged the Corinthians with the mortal sin of repudiating the resurrection of Jesus; "for," said he, "if the dead rise not," as ye say, "then Christ is not raised." Their heresy eat out this truth, which stands or falls with the reality of the "first resurrection" at his coming

Zanjan: "and the second into a re-union of disembodied ghosts with their old mortalities to be sent back whence they came"

Not sure I understand what you just said there. To my knowledge, all Christians believe that at the time of the end, Christ will return to earth - when He does, Christians who are living on earth, will all be reunited with Him in the clouds, bar none. They call this event the Rapture.

The stickler is with some denominations. For instance, one believes all Christians - those who've died and were buried in the past, and those still walking the earth - will instantly have physical bodies that are translucent and they will live on earth forever. Those who aren't Christians will be annihilated. The judgment is only for non-Christians.

Whereas, another denomination believes every human on earth will see the physical body of Jesus and believe in Him so, they'll all be Christians. However, they'll continue living on earth; Jesus will turn the earth into a paradise of everlasting peace where nobody cries or works. Nothing about heaven, per se - the view is of a *perfect* earth and utopian society. Somehow, personal judgment got lost in the confusion.

In both cases, hell is eliminated, so is the devil and his minions.

" Punish souls first and judge them after! "

Yeah, I get the awkwardness of that. Torture until you say you're a Christian.

A resurrection means to return to life *as it was before* the death. None of the above beliefs seem to fit that description.

ghostgeek: Quite correct. All these beliefs can't be true so it's best to admit that none of them are.

lori100: Bob Monroe taught people to travel out of body for decades including astronauts and govt people.....good talk......

Zanjan: "Compressed learning"?
Take two books, slam together to make a skull sandwich.....hehe.

Sounds like he's describing re-incarnation. He's having lots of two-way conversations with his "non-physical friends". They say that happens just before you die. Looks like he's almost there.

I've never found a practical use for Astral traveling. At best, it convinces the person the soul has properties that were formerly unknown. Nobody knows how it works.

lori100: he had talks with non-physical friends out of body for decades, ...this is an old video ...he died years ago, my uncle who traveled out of body met him after he died when he was out of body....yes...it is reincarnation....he says people get addicted to life on earth and keep coming back

Zanjan: Sorry, there's no evidence that the idea of re-incarnation is anything other than a grave misunderstanding of resurrection.

I noticed he's not mentioning anything about God, Himself, only something about becoming gods. There aren't many polytheists around anymore.

Furthermore, it's impossible to have a mutual conversation with those who've passed on. We can't get through the veils God has placed between us and the hereafter (for good reason).

lori100: it is possible to talk to the dead...happens alot

Zanjan: We talk to God too -He hears but if He ever talked back during that conversation, we'd have the power of Revelation, deliver a scripture and new religion for mankind, and build a new civilization.

Likewise, if the dead really did talk to us, there would be some proof to show for that; something would come to fruition. There's not a wit of that from this fellow or any of his "students".

ghostgeek: When you believe in something, it's true whether it's true or not. So for those who believe in reincarnation, it's true whatever deniers say.

ghostgeek: Exactly the same as for those who believe in God.

Zanjan: Those who believe in things that aren't true aren't saying "this is true for me"; they're asserting it's the reality everyone should know about. Who makes such claims? Only three kinds of people -> Prophets, those who see something they don't understand, and liars.

Everything bears a sign of its existence- to recognize a sign doesn't imply one knows everything about it - only a Revelator has access to that degree of knowledge.

ALL Revelators agree with each other. Therefore, if you can't agree with a Revelator, you're the one who is balking reality, rejecting the truth.

Zanjan: Like I said, those of us who accept NDEs and Astral travel as true, aren't just believers - we've had that experience ourselves. We need no convincing.

That doesn't mean we all believe everyone who claims to have had either of those experiences has actually had them. Too many fakers around to be that gullible. Anyone can repeat a story, calling it their own, but the real experience has deep consequences.

We can describe what we experienced but we're not sure what's technically occurring. We'd need a Revelator to confirm it for us. For example, in both cases, so often the initiation is the same - that is, the individual feels a lifting and separation from their body - is that what's really going on?

No, according to God. Each soul is always associated with his/her own physical body. The earthly soul can mentally detach and enter into a different state. Just like in the dream world, it can move as a spiritual entity beyond the material world. Yet one has no control of this at all. Meanwhile, their soul remains associated with their body. That's where the similarity ends.

The consequence of a real NDE is a permanent, albeit incomplete, transformation in the individual. It's a life-changing event. Destiny takes a different course. That's the sign to any observer.

There's nothing to be taught. If one needs the experience, they'll have it and it will be unique in some ways.