God Never Spoke to Moses or the Hebrews (Page 3)

ghostgeek: Oh, and we're all to believe that flea ridden Moses and Aaron could just waltz into Pharaoh's palace any time they chose and tell him what he must do? Even brain dead zombies wouldn't buy that one.

DontNeedChrist: Please address the question. What would prompt Pharaoh release the Israelites based on only nine ordinary, hum-drum, everyday, yawn inducing natural occurrences?

ghostgeek: I'll address the question any damn way I like. The way I see things, Moses and Aaron never went near Pharaoh. Neither did they bring down any plagues on Egypt. It was a scam from start to finish. Tell some newbies in Egypt about a promised land to the east, to which they would be taken, if only mighty pharaoh could be persuaded to let them go.

Now, seeing that the Hebrews were working on a building site, who do you think pharaoh was? My guess is that it was the site foreman. Easy to imagine he wouldn't be too keen on seeing half his workforce disappearing into the desert. And Moses? Sounds like the union rep. Let's not forget that good old Ramesses III had a builders' strike on his hands when he couldn't dish up the grub to his workers.

Of course pharaoh, or the site foreman, never did release the Hebrews. They just took off into the desert with anything they could plunder. That's why the Egyptian cops were hot on their tails, just like in any second rate B movie.

DontNeedChrist: World history according to some bloke that calls himself ghostgeek. I see what I'm dealing with. Thanks for all the laughs. You've wasted enough of my time.

ghostgeek: Can't take the plain unvarnished truth DNC? Best get back to your Torah scrolls then.

ghostgeek: By the way, did I tell you about the flies? Seems they come every year when it gets warm, and not a Moses in sight.

ghostgeek: And darkness? Yes that still comes regular as clockwork. It's called a sandstorm.

ghostgeek: Ever heard of blood rain? We get it in the UK every so often. It's dust from the Sahara, the same stuff as in all those sandstorms.

ghostgeek: The lavae and pupae of the midge, or gnat, live in moist soil. Almost microscopic they are. When they develop into the mature insects they fly away. Sounds like something that originates in "dust" to me, just like it says in plague number three.

DontNeedChrist: The Torah isn't "best guess" or speculation from the mind of an over imaginative skeptic. It's kept a people alive for thousands of years regardless of what your ridiculous take on it is.

ghostgeek: I'm sure it's very tasty when buttered but that doesn't mean it's the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

DontNeedChrist: You don't know truth from speculation, you're too jaded and desensitized. Fun and games are done. Shalom geek.

ghostgeek: Bye DNC. I heard Torah scrolls go down a treat with strawberry jam. Sounds scrumptious.

deuce916: DNC & DNG. Good on you ghost, it's easy to see what happened when you look at it realistically. Thanks for the enlightening thread.

ghostgeek: Thank you Deuce. I find it sad that an evidently intelligent person such as DNC can still believe in a three and a half thousand year old Midianite volcano god without experiencing a single doubt. Progress is painfully slow in some quarters.

DontNeedChrist: Not a single doubt for over 3,300 years. Quite the solid foundation to base one's knowledge. Unlike the best guess du jour. Don't cry for me.

ghostgeek: Maybe it would have been better for the world if a few more people had had a few more doubts over the last three odd thousand years. Well, that's all history now, sadly. That doesn't absolve people living now though. Anyone can check the facts, but few seem prepared to put in the effort. My guess is that they are afraid of what they may find. That their cherished God is nothing but an illusion.

If you study the Exodus with an open mind it soon becomes clear that the Ten Plagues of Egypt never happened. Everything written about them is just the result of an erroneous interpretation of a typical Egyptian spring. No Egyptian wrote about the Exodus of the Hebrews because there was nothing to write about. It was situation normal.

duncan124:

The Moses story is a good example of the Bible writing a story from its angle.

The ' facts ' are verifiable and how the Bible has described them is a guide to how it views things.

duncan124:

There is not a volcano in the Middle East. The hot springs were caused by friction.

And ' Aaron ' was just called something like ' Ron ' , but his mother had had a nasty accident and had a pale face from the scaring.

Tales that say someone was found in a basket are often added to the life story of someone who could make towns and cities.

ghostgeek: Duncan, check out Saudi Arabia. All along the western side there are extinct volcanoes. In 1256 A.D. the city of Medina was nearly engulfed by lava from one such volcano. Part of the great rift valley that stretches from East Africa to Syria.

duncan124:

Iran is the only county listed by Volcano Discovery with volcanic activity. It even includes old volcanic stuff 10,000 years old.

It seems to show that the writer knew of human reactions else where to volcanoes.

ghostgeek: Here's a quote that might be of interest:

'A 'failed' volcanic eruption caused a swarm of more than 30,000 earthquakes in a remote region of Saudi Arabia last year, a team of US and Saudi scientists has found. ... Magma rose from the bottom of the crust to within 2 kilometres of the surface, ... rather than forming a conventional magma chamber, it forced its way through the rocks in a sheet, known as a dyke, many kilometres wide and as little as a metre thick. ... Many of the earthquakes measured 2 or less on the Richter scale, and so were detectable only by instruments. But one, on 19 May 2009, had a magnitude of 5.4 according to Saudi Geological Survey estimates, and 5.7 according to the USGS. That was enough to open up an 8-kilometre-long fissure across the desert and to crack walls and foundations in a nearby town, forcing the evacuation of 40,000 people. ... The near-eruption occurred in an ancient lava field called Harrat Lunayyir in northwest Saudi Arabia. The area has seen many eruptions over the past 20 million years, but no volcanic activity in recorded history. Now the region may be primed for future eruptions, failed or otherwise. "A pathway from the mantle nearly to the surface was established," says Pallister. "That's the type of thing that tends to get reactivated."'
[ http://www.nature.com/news/2010/100926/full/news.2010.494.html ]

ghostgeek: The thing about north west Saudi Arabia is that it was the location of Midian, the spot where Moses is said to have fled to after killing an Egyptian. Interestingly, the burning bush episode occurs at the mountain of God, which is holy ground, within sheep grazing distance of where a priest of Midian lives. If we assume that an active fumarole was involved, not so unreasonable an assumption if an active volcano is nearby, then we have evidence that the Midianites may have been worshipping a volcano god. This in turn leads to the possibility that Yahweh may be none other than a Midianite volcano god.

duncan124: I don't think there are any volcanoes and I don't know why anyone would say there were. With all the oil exploration in the region the geology is well surveyed.

“Egyptians” was a nick name given at that time to all those who ' worked ' in the modern sense and so references to the ' Egyptians ' may mean anybody.

ghostgeek: Duncan, check out the websites and the video posted below.

http://www.volcanodiscovery.com/saudi-arabia.html

https://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/200602/volcanic.arabia.htm