I am an atheist, but... (Page 3)

Zanjan: I recall at least a dozen different discussions where you showed up in these non-important threads about religion. Maybe you forgot I was involved. That's ok........as long as one of us was watching.

I see no reason why one can't drop in on the easy, non-controversial subjects too.

By the way, did you know animals like music? My Parrot likes western. He also likes messages on the answering machine and will talk to the recording. Plants like music too - they prefer symphony orchestra - not too many cymbals though.

Geoff: Yes, and on these unimportant topics, I read what you had to say, and figured it somewhat delusional.

As I said, we haven't gone vis-a-vis on an important matter.

Yes, I am aware that animals like music. The great apes seem to prefer Bach or Tchaikovsky.

Zanjan: What do you consider an important matter - music?

Geoff: No, something that affects the ability of a human being to live in harmony with the society around them and their own conscience.

Zanjan: Could you be more specific? Name an issue?

Geoff: Marriage between a homosexual couple.

Geoff: *Top of my head. Certainly topical.

Zanjan: Would you say that your position on that, whatever it is, reflects the same of all atheists?

Geoff: No. Because atheism is not a coherent movement.

Atheism is nothing more nor less than the admission that there is insufficient evidence for the existence of a god.

You are an atheist. Since I doubt you believe in the great snake of the dreamtime. Or any of the tribal gods of Africa. Or Vishnu.

I just happen to believe in one god less than you.

MercuryDragon: Just to chime in a little on the topic of music, as that's something important to me and relevant to the thread.

One beautiful thing about music is that all people perceive it differently. Even if the composer or artist intended for a piece to have a specific meaning, the listener associates what they hear with their own personal experiences and views. A song about finding peace in heaven can easily relate to a listener as the peace they find thinking of those they care about most without belief in a deity being necessary-- as that sort of train of thought is an ideal heaven to most anyone.

You don't have to adhere to the views of the artist to appreciate their work. And there is much beauty to be found in that open mindedness.

Zanjan: Geoff, I'm not an atheist - never have been.

However, I'll agree that atheism lacks coherence. In this situation, it's like chaos - how can one be divided when there are no lines to cross?

I'm also wondering if this topic is about music, specifically. Wouldn't want to digress.

MercuryDragon: You are missing Geoff's point.

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god. You are indeed an atheist when posed with gods you do not believe in. He simply believes in one less than you, as said.

Geoff: lol - I am labelled as atheist, but not defined by it.

I do my best to adhere to the nine noble virtues of the Odinic Rite. Another god you don't believe in (and under which rules you are an atheist, since gods tend to not like sharing).

And if you think that your god gave humanity it's rules, then you don't know humanity. And I am going to guess you don't know the rules.

Geoff: Music is the one thing that unites and divides humanity evenly, without care for race, creed, or social status.

I am just slightly put out that I was born with the musical talent of a blocked nostril.

Zanjan: Mercury, it's true that people interpret music though often not with sacredness in mind. I've found that people often mis-hear the lyrics of a song and tend to sing it with what they think they've heard........sometimes, with very funny results. Also, some music lover's timing is way off.

PS. I know what an atheist is - that's how I know I'm not one. Atheists don't believe in a deity; they do, however, have some other things they worship. That's defined by what comes first in their life.

Geoff: http://www.kissthisguy.com/

Based on a commonly misheard Hendrix lyric.

But then, people misinterpret what their prophets say. So, mishearing a singer is no big deal.

Geoff: *Especially when the history of their religion is brought to light.

MercuryDragon: Aw, Geoff. I'm sure you could strum a guitar if you wanted. Anyone with hands can play one; it's the Malmsteen level of playing that takes.. something more than usual.

Zanjan: Music disturbs the physical air, emitting waves that may or may not hurt the eardrum. Jazz and Rap can be just as irritating to certain souls as the voice of Marilyn Manson on stage and and Maria Callas hitting A5. Interpret that.

In this, it's the same as religion. One seeks perfection but the moment one interprets, they've lost the point - they're forcibly pounding a square peg into a round hole. It's not what religious folks have interpreted something INTO that's bothersome - it's that they interpreted, period. They crapped on the sacred. Most find that quite irritating.

Geoff: Religion is one human trying to control another human.

It seldom has anything to do with faith. Which is what one human believes.

Zanjan: Like, atheists never try to control people

Atheists have faith in themselves and in humanity, only to be let down every time.

Geoff: Atheists are not a group of people any more than ginger haired people are a group, or left-handed people are a group of people.

Creating an organisation of atheists has been described as akin to herding cats,

It's not like a religion. It really isn't. There isn't someone saying "This is almighty atheismo, you will follow his creed!"

It's like being 10 and knowing that Father Christmas isn't real. And then realising the same about God.

Your god is real to you because you believe him to be. Odin isn't a real god to you. Zeus isn't a real god to you. Shiva isn't real to you. And why?

When you can answer that question, you will know why your god isn't real to me.

Razz_: People who believe in God are let down everyday Zanjan

Geoff: Wait - I just caught you edit.

You believe that atheists are selfish?

Believe me, if I was selfish, I would be working as a preacher, or maybe a faith healer. Earning ridiculous amounts of money for what I convince others to believe.

Instead I work very hard in a field I have spent two decades mastering, for less than I should be paid (based on national surveys, not my own opinion), so that I can end each day with the opportunity to spend time with my kids.

You want to be a coward and edit a post to insult me again?

Geoff: *your edit

See - I'll avoid editing my post and openly admit to my typos.